LGBT in schools vs religious parents
- Thread starter Anton
- Start date
InArduisFouette
Well-Known Member
funny how the ' i have concerns crowd' immediately go to refering to transgender women as 'intact men ' and implying they are rapists
andysays
Love and solidarity
Have any of the posters you've labelled as transphobic on this thread done that?
If so, you can point out where; if not, maybe you'd be better off not making so many ridiculous and unsubstantiated accusations.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
I wasn’t sure whether the “I have concerns” crowd were posting on this thread.
Serge Forward
Just enjoyin' my coffee.
I don't doubt some do. But I'm not talking about that 'crowd'. There are those who use their 'concerns' just to promote a clearly transphobic agenda and those that have concerns, doubts or are asking out of ignorance. I am talking about the latter, but then I'm sure you know this.
InArduisFouette
Well-Known Member
as we've seen in this thread recently someone who was lauded as 'decent' and ' likely to be your ally' is spouting David Bell's transphobic points and therefore promoting Blanchardism and outright exclusionary behaviour
InArduisFouette
Well-Known Member
it's almost as though you haven;t read the last few pages of the threre where 'Spymaster' was claiming that 'little baby jesus' wasa trans ally , and 'little baby jesus' was saying that Daivd Bell had good and valid points ...Which transphobic points?
David Bell who has no clinical experience with trans people gregardless of age yet is trotted out by the likes of the Christian Legal centre as an expert of childhood Gender Incongruence and has links with far right funded transphobic groups
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
It's like you're reading a different thread to everyone else.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
You said someone was spouting David Bell’s transphobic points.
I’ve been reading the thread and saw no transphobic points spouted.
Which ones?
Serge Forward
Just enjoyin' my coffee.
Can you not do this please, say someone is likely to be my ally when I know nothing about them (and i know fuckall about David Bell). For fuck sake, I broadly support the TRA side, not the GCs. You'd start a row in an empty room.
ddraig
kicking against the pricks...
I wouldn't waste your time tbh! It's all larks to some sadly
Lurdan
old wave
At the Employment Tribunal hearing on the 21st-25th September 2020 Kristie Higgs was represented by Pavel Stroilov, a member of the Christian Legal Centre. Online judgement. (pdf)
After the judgement was issued the Falun Gong paper The Epoch Times quoted Andrea Williams the Chief Executive of the Christian Legal Centre
I see no reason to doubt that the CLC is using it's funds to help her pursue this case and is 'assisting' and 'advising' her in instructing solicitors.
Like many other people, I imagine, I became aware of the CLC over their disgusting role in the Alfie Evans case. Pavel Stroilov attracted considerable criticism over his involvement in that.
Here's a 2018 blog post by Giles Peaker a partner at Anthony Gold Solicitors which questions the CLCs actions and singles him out:
On the Naughty Step - the questionable ethics of the Christian Legal Centre - Nearly Legal: Housing Law News and Comment
And here is an archived Daily Mail article tearing him a new one:
Judge slams 'fanatical and deluded' legal adviser to Alfie Evans' parents who wants to launch private murder prosecution if the boy dies but 'doesn't have his best interests at heart' - Daily Mail Online
8ball
Decolonise colons!
I’m not too sure whether something has gone wonky there. I land on a post that doesn’t even refer to a conference.
I did find a post nearby with a link to a Medium article (which I haven’t read yet) in it. Do you mean that?
LBJ endorsed David Bell as someone who has sensible thing to say on this subject. I don't think it's unreasonable to see that as promoting bigotry in much the same way as if someone said you should listen to Tommy Robinson, he's got sensible things to say about immigration or Islam.
Bell's association with Genspect, a deeply transphobic organisation who are pushing to end all trans healthcare for young people as well as young and 'vulnerable' adults, reveals his stance on this subject. As do his cranky opinions about what causes people to be trans which are not based on any published evidence and certainly not based on how trans and gender incongruent people describe their experiences of gender.
Like many in the medical and psychiatric establishment when it comes to this issue he is just spouting off any hot take that comes into his head to explain transness. And given his role that causes trans people harm. It also mirrors the experiences of many trans people when they try to access (not even trans related) healthcare and therapeutic services. It's like every non trans-supportive medical professional seems to have a pet theory about this which has little basis in evidence but which they just can't wait to use to undermine what trans people say about themselves. His transphobia may not reach the open hatefulness of someone like Posie Parker, but in many ways it is much more damaging.
Rob Ray
Weight is meaningless
The link:
What it’s like to attend an anti-trans conference as a trans researcher
If there’s one thing I learned from it, it’s that we should be gentle with ourselves and each other as we navigate this hellscape together.
is to the conference report in which the diagram ...
... which is referenced in the quote block, appears. I can't see any way in which said diagram is ambiguous in its positioning, it offers no vision of why trans people do what they do which doesn't involve some form on insult to their collective character and mental health.
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InArduisFouette
Well-Known Member
I wasn't talking about you unless you are part of other posters sock drawer
8ball
Decolonise colons!
The link:
What it’s like to attend an anti-trans conference as a trans researcher
If there’s one thing I learned from it, it’s that we should be gentle with ourselves and each other as we navigate this hellscape together.thatweirdolee.medium.com
is to the conference report in which the diagram ...
View attachment 410747
... which is referenced in the quote block, appears. I can't see any way in which said diagram is ambiguous in its positioning, it offers no vision of why trans people do what they do which doesn't involve some form on insult to their collective character and mental health.
Thanks - yeah - I got to it after a bit of a look. See edit on last post.
The diagram looks pretty nonsensical to me, but then I’ve no clue what kind of spiel goes with it.
It doesn’t seem to match anything that was said by a poster on this thread, though.
Aside from your mention of the “body as machine” thing. Obv you weren’t endorsing whatever the idea was…
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Rob Ray
Weight is meaningless
I think that was a reference to LBJ suggesting Bell was a reasonable critical figure. I'd not be entirely surprised if LBJ had only seen a public-facing bit from Bell which sounded more reasonable, a lot of these types will have two spiels, one for the undecided or lesser-decided public and one for the insiders.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
Yeah, the Bell that emerges later on seems to have a lot more certainty going on than the one LBJ seemed to be talking about.
Thanks - yeah - I got to it after a bit of a look. See edit on last post.
The diagram looks pretty nonsensical to me, but then I’ve no clue what kind of spiel goes with it.
It doesn’t seem to match anything that was said by a poster on this thread, though.
No, but the person who produced that image was recommended by someone as a person who has sensible things to say about this (in contrast presumably to trans people and trans supportive healthcare workers themselves). Do you not understand why that might get some people's backs up?
Rob Ray
Weight is meaningless
I think one issue that does crop up a lot is that what we do as, essentially, lay people is dip into what's going on and pick up what we think are reasonable points, while people embedded in the topic know a whole load of extra background. So it's easy to get to a stage where someone cites a figure and the response is "oh you're a disciple of ..." etc.
Like Norman Finklestein on Gaza recently - loads of people repeating his well-researched and reasonable bits while others who know his background are very much "oh ffs not that guy."
Like Norman Finklestein on Gaza recently - loads of people repeating his well-researched and reasonable bits while others who know his background are very much "oh ffs not that guy."
8ball
Decolonise colons!
Well, kind of, but not to the degree where they start seeing comments that haven’t been made.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
I've "played into" nothing, Serge. Other than my own view of what does and doesn't constitute "a woman" I've been wholly supportive of trans people, save for certain behaviour by individuals.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
And you understand why lying that someone has been "promoting child torture" might also raise a few hackles, right?
comrade spurski
Well-Known Member
Disagree tbh.
If a member or supporter of a group like Britain First, BNP, C18 etc. is seen on one of their demonstrations or is leafleting for them (in their own time) I would be for sacking them if they worked in a school.
With those views it would be impossible for them to treat all the kids and their families fairly or equally and I would not trust them near my kids if they were at the same school
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