Make Some Parents Share Their Kids Guilt

[8ball]

Not sure whether the OP’s idea is just something rattling about the right wing hive mind at the moment - I noticed a right wing outlet today was proposing that Rudakunbana’s parents be deported…

 

[PTK]

He was a week short of turning 18. Still officially a minor, yes, but no longer really a kid. He knew right from wrong, he just chose not to go by it.

Personally, when I was that age (in 2004), I had already left school and home and was renting a room and working full time for nearly two years before that. And all through my own choice because I wanted to be independent, not because anyone made me. I know that's not so easy for school leavers now due to this "must stay in some form of education until your 18th birthday" one-size fits all policy which has existed for the past 10 years, but that's kind of my point. If you're going to blame anyone/anything other than the actual killer and his actions, why not consider that this grim infantilisation of young adults might be contributing? Technically, at the time of his crimes, he was legally old enough to have potentially fathered a child himself, and therefore have the responsibility to teach that hypothetical child "right from wrong". So if the law deems you responsible enough to consent to sex and have babies, why not make the age of majority 16 so you can have equal rights across the board (leave school, leave home, work full time, vote and drink) on the understanding that with those adult rights comes adult responsibility, and you can't hide behind "I'm a minor" by calculatedly committing an atrocity a convenient matter of a few days before hitting the big 1-8.

Well, you can't get married until you are 18, the law having changed in 2023, and there is scientific evidence that the brain does not fully develop until we are 25. Males aged 18-20 may be sent to a Young Offender Institution rather than prison.
The key point for me is that this person is mentally unbalanced. I think that he should be sent to a secure hospital.

 

[LeytonCatLady]

Not sure whether the OP’s idea is just something rattling about the right wing hive mind at the moment - I noticed a right wing outlet today was proposing that Rudakabana’s parents be deported…

Think they've had to be given new identities to protect them from the abuse. I feel sorry for them, it's not their fault and their son fucked up their lives as well as the girls he murdered and their families. So many lives ruined by one bastard. This Keir Starmer representing Dad in 2002 theory doing the rounds pisses me off. Like, even if that was true, are lawyers supposed to not defend a client on the off chance their unborn child might commit mass murder? They're really reaching.

 

[8ball]

Think they've had to be given new identities to protect them from the abuse. I feel sorry for them, it's not their fault and their son fucked up their lives as well as the girls he murdered and their families. So many lives ruined by one bastard. This Keir Starmer representing Dad in 2002 theory doing the rounds pisses me off. Like, even if that was true, are lawyers supposed to not defend a client on the off chance their unborn child might commit mass murder? They're really reaching.

Oh, I hadn’t heard this Keir Starmer thing. I had heard them bigging up that they had something big on Starmer, but this sounds like a damp squib for all but the most addled.

 

[LeytonCatLady]

Well, you can't get married until you are 18, the law having changed in 2023, and there is scientific evidence that the brain does not fully develop until we are 25. Males aged 18-20 may be sent to a Young Offender Institution rather than prison.
The key point for me is that this person is mentally unbalanced. I think that he should be sent to a secure hospital.

Bolded is a myth and I have zero faith in patronising pop science that has been used in the past not only as an excuse for taking people's housing benefit away but also letting a rapist off prison.

Outrage as man walks free after rape of 13-year-old girl in Scotland

Judge says Sean Hogg, 17 when he committed the crime and now 21, would have been jailed if he had been over 25

www.theguardian.com

 

[eatmorecheese]

In their shoes, I would have seriously considered packing him off to Rwanda.

Lol. This is a transparent drive-by OP. 'In your shoes' I'm confident you know very little about Rwanda or the circumstances that led his parents to be living in the UK.

And I'm sure he would've presented no risk whatsoever to anyone in Rwanda. No siree.

Can't be arsed to comment on the rest of your post but see the replies above

 

[Elpenor]

been wondering

Why only some parents?

How should they be chosen?

 

[Sue]

Well, you can't get married until you are 18, the law having changed in 2023, and there is scientific evidence that the brain does not fully develop until we are 25. Males aged 18-20 may be sent to a Young Offender Institution rather than prison.
The key point for me is that this person is mentally unbalanced. I think that he should be sent to a secure hospital.

16 in Scotland.

Getting married

Information on getting married, legal requirements, different types of marriage and marriage law.

www.citizensadvice.org.uk

 

[Aaronf]

been wondering

Why only some parents?

How should they be chosen?

Someone told me that they saw (for sale online) one of those ticket things they used to have on the meat counters in supermarkets. Can't be much use for them after they introduced the little digital display screen.

Could be an option?

 

[PTK]

Bolded is a myth and I have zero faith in patronising pop science that has been used in the past not only as an excuse for taking people's housing benefit away but also letting a rapist off prison.

Outrage as man walks free after rape of 13-year-old girl in Scotland

Judge says Sean Hogg, 17 when he committed the crime and now 21, would have been jailed if he had been over 25

www.theguardian.com

Science is not dependant on faith. As far as I know, it is well established that the brain does not fully develop until we are 25.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

Have you not heard of Shirley Bassey?

It's just a little bit of history repeating

 

[LeytonCatLady]

Science is not dependant on faith. As far as I know, it is well established that the brain does not fully develop until we are 25.

It's not well established at all. That's a myth based on a study where the age of the subjects only went up to 25. It varies from person to person. Some people don’t peak in their frontal lobe development until their mid 30s. Do they not properly know right from wrong?

 

[8ball]

It's not well established at all. That's a myth based on a study where the age of the subjects only went up to 25. It varies from person to person. Some people don’t peak in their frontal lobe development until their mid 30s. Do they not properly know right from wrong?

I believe “mid to late 20s” is reasonably established for the vast majority of people, but you’d expect outliers. I don’t know the current state of research so you may be ahead of me on that.

I think PTK may have interpreted your post as saying the mid-20s generality is nonsense and 18 is a solid boundary.

Personally, I think people know right from wrong a long time before 18, with few exceptions.

Fully developed empathy and judgment isn’t the same thing obv.

 

[Aaronf]

I think the brain is so complex that we'll never understand it and anything is possible. I knew right from wrong from a very early age but as for other things regarding parts of the brain not developing - can completely understand that well into 20's or maybe will stay that way for 30's 40's who knows?

 

[8ball]

Have to also bear in mind that a lot of people’s lives are changing a lot during this time. Quite likely that the demands on this part of the brain (concerned with things like long term planning, management of ongoing events etc.) are changing as someone moves from full-time education and into situations of managing more of their own affairs generally.

Results are likely to be influenced by the population you are researching, the expectations society has of that group etc.

 

[smokedout]

Science is not dependant on faith. As far as I know, it is well established that the brain does not fully develop until we are 25.

It's a myth: https://www.sciencefocus.com/comment/brain-myth-25-development

You know if you stopped reading terf shit you'd make a fool of yourself a lot less often.

 

[Rimbaud]

I believe “mid to late 20s” is reasonably established for the vast majority of people, but you’d expect outliers. I don’t know the current state of research so you may be ahead of me on that.

I think PTK may have interpreted your post as saying the mid-20s generality is nonsense and 18 is a solid boundary.

Personally, I think people know right from wrong a long time before 18, with few exceptions.

Fully developed empathy and judgment isn’t the same thing obv.

Yeah frontal lobe development, if I'm not mistaken, is more about planning and impulse control, not "knowing right from wrong".

I think I definitely started to be more responsible and less impulsive around my mid 20s, but that's more about things like not blowing half my months pay on a big night out then living on rice and peas the rest of the month, not staying out till 3am on a work night, and making decisions with clear and realistic long term goals in mind. It's not like most people are violent in their teens and early teens.

 

[petee]

Personally, I think people know right from wrong a long time before 18, with few exceptions.

when i was Growing Up Catholic, that age was considered to be seven.

 

[farmerbarleymow]

when i was Growing Up Catholic, that age was considered to be seven.

The Catholic Church probably also thinks that's the age of consent, given the awful scandals that have happened.

 

[Lotte]

Think they've had to be given new identities to protect them from the abuse. I feel sorry for them, it's not their fault and their son fucked up their lives as well as the girls he murdered and their families. So many lives ruined by one bastard. This Keir Starmer representing Dad in 2002 theory doing the rounds pisses me off. Like, even if that was true, are lawyers supposed to not defend a client on the off chance their unborn child might commit mass murder? They're really reaching.

Me too. How did they know their son was going to be a murdering piece of shit? They're going to have to live with that forever.

 

[xenon]

Science is not dependant on faith. As far as I know, it is well established that the brain does not fully develop until we are 25.

That instance was about sentencing guidelines, not whether the defendant knew right from wrong. And of course he should have been banged up.

 

[xenon]

No one is seriously arguing people don't know right from wrong before their mid 20s are they?...

 

[PTK]

No one is seriously arguing people don't know right from wrong before their mid 20s are they?...

I am not. I don't know if anyone else is.
It is certainly true that younger people are more likely to commit crimes. In the 1960s, there was a large increase in the number of young people people, and the crime rate increased.

 

[PTK]

It's a myth: https://www.sciencefocus.com/comment/brain-myth-25-development

You know if you stopped reading terf shit you'd make a fool of yourself a lot less often.

I am looking forward to the day when you have matured enough that you are able to respond to a difference of opinion over the science of mental development without hurling mindless abuse.

 

[maomao]

I've heard the 'brain matures at 25' myth repeated by an educational psychologist in a professional setting.

 

[LeytonCatLady]

That instance was about sentencing guidelines, not whether the defendant knew right from wrong. And of course he should have been banged up.

Yeah, but those sentencing guidelines were based on the idea that someone under 25 somehow doesn't know what they're doing. Which is clearly bollocks.

 

[Pickman's model]

Yeah frontal lobe development, if I'm not mistaken, is more about planning and impulse control, not "knowing right from wrong".

I think I definitely started to be more responsible and less impulsive around my mid 20s, but that's more about things like not blowing half my months pay on a big night out then living on rice and peas the rest of the month, not staying out till 3am on a work night, and making decisions with clear and realistic long term goals in mind. It's not like most people are violent in their teens and early teens.

perhaps people are most violent in their teens, tho' this will obviously vary from person to person and any proclivity toward violence likely to decline thereafter, but i don't know whether the early teens are a particularly violent period

 

[smokedout]

I've heard the 'brain matures at 25' myth repeated by an educational psychologist in a professional setting.

Probably getting on a bit and a long way from that late-twenties sweet spot between brain development and brain deterioration. Best not to take them too seriously.

 

[maomao]

Probably getting on a bit and a long way from that late-twenties sweet spot between brain development and brain deterioration. Best not to take them too seriously.

I never take the EPs seriously. They seem to be employed to talk nonsense.

 

[petee]

I've heard the 'brain matures at 25' myth repeated by an educational psychologist in a professional setting.

it's taken as fact in my school, often repeated by administrators.