Laurence Fox. The twat.
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hiraethified
Mate. Sometimes it's best just to leave a thread for a bit. There's plenty going on elsewhere!
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
TO VHSALLA
Lord Camomile
Yipchaa!
I feel like there's a difference between being unilaterally 'anti-vax' and being wary of a new vaccine that's been rushed through testing by a for-profit company who stands to benefit massively if they're 'first'. That's not saying "I won't get vaccinated", it's just "I'm not 100% confident in this".
I've happily been vaccinated against all sorts of things in my time, but I'm pretty sure most of them had been around for ages and rigorously tested.
We don't know the long-term impact of any of these vaccines in the running, but then the question is also how long can we wait to find out, and what do we do in the meantime? At some point, someone has to be first.
Also, there are plenty of cases of medical studies where they cook the results, either only sharing the positive ones or something else. I've literally attended workshops where we look at this as something to watch out for, well before 2020.
I probably will get vaccinated relatively early on, because I feel like my fears are more just that, rather than thought-out or well-researched concerns, but I feel like having those instinctive concerns doesn't immediately make someone a selfish cunt.
I've happily been vaccinated against all sorts of things in my time, but I'm pretty sure most of them had been around for ages and rigorously tested.
We don't know the long-term impact of any of these vaccines in the running, but then the question is also how long can we wait to find out, and what do we do in the meantime? At some point, someone has to be first.
Also, there are plenty of cases of medical studies where they cook the results, either only sharing the positive ones or something else. I've literally attended workshops where we look at this as something to watch out for, well before 2020.
I probably will get vaccinated relatively early on, because I feel like my fears are more just that, rather than thought-out or well-researched concerns, but I feel like having those instinctive concerns doesn't immediately make someone a selfish cunt.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Not that alone, no. Going on the internets calling people pussies gving up their freedom....
Lord Camomile
Yipchaa!
8ball
Decolonise colons!
I think by limiting my mentions to the Pfizer and AZ vaccines, it was kind of implicit I wouldn't have total confidence in any old vaccine either (there are nearly 200 in development).
Plus we need to bear in mind that vaccines do come with certain risks. All of them.
Being in the industry, my questions are probably different to yours, but the concern you raise about selective publishing isn't something I'd be concerned about in the cases of the most visible trials that weren't just pre-registered but shouted about to everyone who would listen. Most of my concerns relate to data sharing (especially in the context of the massive subsidies that have been thrown to these companies), and the patent arrangements that seem almost deliberately designed to ensure developing countries continue to be ravaged by this virus for years to come. Also I'll be surprised (albeit very happily) if we get vaccines that actually turn out 90%+ effective in terms of likelihood of contracting the virus*. You don't need to be an expert to notice that these numbers don't even mention how long immunity lasts for. The actual answer likely being "how long we watched these particular patients for when doing this particular calculation".
I'll get jabbed asap mostly because I want to go pubbing and clubbing as soon as is possible (the latter might well be some time after most of us are vaccinated from the sound of things).
* - yeah, somewhat scruffy terminology, statistically speaking - ykwim
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oryx
Sitting on the bok of the day
But who is saying, or suggesting, that the Covid vaccine will be compulsory?'Forced' is what I hear when they use 'compulsory'.I don't think I am alone in that.
Just thinking about all the vaccines I have knowingly had...
Rubella
BCG
No idea about childhood ones as I don't remember.
A few recommended ones for travelling to far away places during the 90's.
I never 'choose' to get a flu jab.
For the record...I haven't lost my mind and turned into an anti-vaxxer
I am just not the medication type and never had been. I am also a belligerent fucker and don't like being told what to do and certainly don't want to be strong armed into having anything that I'm not first convinced is tried/tested/safe obviously.
Calling me or anyone else 'a selfish cunt' is a ridiculous response IMO.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Jews?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Hancock was asked if it would be compulsory, and he refused to rule it out. tbh I don't see what Hancock could have said different at this stage. It was a rare moment of honesty. Doesn't mean it will be compulsory, although as I said above, I won't be surprised if it is made a condition for certain things such as travel (and compulsory vaccination for travel has happened before).
Treacle Toes
Time
I was referring to the line of questioning that I heard yesterday and in other interviews recently... One journo specifically asked yesterday 'Will you rule out compulsory vaccination' the response was that it couldn't be ruled out at this stage. It gave me the creeps as I have posted above.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
I'd have been happier if they had had a plan and had ruled it out in advance.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Nobody is going to be marched into a surgery and held down to be jabbed against their will, but various things could be made conditional to having the vaccine, and that is going to depend to a certain extent on what happens elsewhere. Whether other countries introduce it as an entry requirement, for instance, is going to affect decisions made here about it.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
The greater the conditionality of normal activities on being vaccinated, the more polarisation and protest will result.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
5% is fine
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Lots of pro-covid 5 per centers suddenly finding a spine.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
The argument can be made the other way, of course. You're ill and you want to use hospital services, but you refuse this bit of the hospital service that is there to protect other people? It's not exaclty civic-minded, is it? I'm not so sure how many people there will be with sympathy for that position if we reach a stage where millions have been jabbed and it's been shown to be safe (or as safe as any vaccine can be).
I'm not advocating this, btw. Hopefully enough people will want to take it that we can safely leave the few who don't alone. But twats like Fox don't help.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Put it this way. It might polarise society. But they would likely be rather unequal poles in terms of their size and strength. This would be no magnet.Is that making the argument the other way?
8ball
Decolonise colons!
Guess we'll see. I'm hearing some concerns about mandatory vaccinations from some unusual quarters.
Cost-benefit thing - if the anti-mandatory vaccination crowd is really tiny, then there is no need to make vaccination mandatory.
If it is larger, how productive is it to make it bigger still?
I think you'll turn out to be right in terms of travel restrictions.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
One reason I think international travel restrictions are likely is because they're relatively easy to do politically – every country is doing it to people from other countries, not their own.
They're also in place already with a lot of countries asking for proof of a recent negative test before allowing entry. Plus yellow fever vaccination also being another one which is sometimes asked for.
oryx
Sitting on the bok of the day
But my main point is:
Why has the issue of 'forced vaccination' come up all and where has this come from?
I'm not talking specifically about vaccines per se but about how this myth (which is what it is until we know the government are attempting compulsory vaccination, which they won't) came about.
Treacle Toes
Time
Well, apart from the interviews I have referred to I don't know. I don't read anti-vax stuff but maybe the journalists asking the questions do?
editor
hiraethified
It's come from the anti-vaxx nutters who are using this non-story as an another excuse to bang on about Big Pharma/Bill Gates/The Jews/New World Order/QAnon/5G and all the other cockdribble they come up with, sending their leaky buckets of troofseeking deep into the Well o'Stupidity.
andysays
Love and solidarity
When they all deny it, you just know something's up...
8ball
Decolonise colons!
Yes, you’d expect medics to take such a stance. Matt Hancock on the other hand...
oryx
Sitting on the bok of the day
I knew that - but was wondering if there was anything (report, more particular conspiracy theory etc.) that might have made it more specific to the 'possibility' of compulsory vaccination for Covid, in the UK.
Like Rutita1 I don't read anti-vax stuff.
I also think that informed questioning of a very quickly developed vaccine is OK (though I would have it, and so would many other people who may be slightly uncomfortable with the speed of its development). It's this fallacy about an enforced vaccine that gets me.
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