Laurence Fox. The twat.

[littlebabyjesus]

Get a fucking grip ...I'm not an anti-vaxxer!

The key point for me is tested/safe/necessary and not feeling like I am being forced if I don't have that confidence.

But you keep being an condescending prick though yeah?...suits you sir.

That's not what twats like Laurence Fox are on about, though. He sees it as his right not to have it, as an invasion of liberty to even suggest that it should have elements of compulsion to it. And I repeat. If you refuse the jab for no good reason, you are being selfish and antisocial. You're refusing to do something that would help other people.

People aren't going to be held down against their will and jabbed, anyway. What could well happen is something that used to be very common - no travel without the vaccination. My mum had to have the smallpox jab before she could visit North America in the 1950s - she'd already had it, but had to have it again anyway to get her visa. That kind of thing very easily could come in for Covid. In fact, I'll be very surprised if it doesn't.

 

[scifisam]

^ This. It annoys me that the issue of 'forced vaccination' has become so great.

Anyone, feel free to correct me, but there is no history of forced vaccination in this country AFAIK and I'm not aware that a Covid vaccine is likely to be the first.

Actually smallpox vaccinations used to be compulsory (for babies born after 1853). But smallpox had a way higher death rate. There was still a huge amount of non-compliance and many legitimate concerns about the vaccination.

Personally I wouldn't really want to take a vaccine unless it had been trialled for at least a year, preferably longer, and tested on different cohorts rather than just young healthy adults. That's not selfish, it's sensible. But on the other hand if vaccination is what we need to start getting some of the good aspects of life back, maybe I'll take one for the team if I end up being one of the ones offered it.

Laurence Fox is just a spoilt toddler hammering his little footsies on the floor to get attention though.

 

[Chilli.s]

The queue for vaccination will be long so avoiding it would be easy. Plenty of people desperate for it. Including me. I'd probably give it a few months depending on when it's offered to me.

That fox twat just likes the sound of his own voice, much as snowflake is not a label of great meaning it does suit him.

 

[Treacle Toes]

That's not what twats like Laurence Fox are on about, though.

Oh I know...but I am. I just mainly wanted to show my thinking and how those who think like I do aren't anti-vaxxers lacking self awareness and selfish cunts.

I think there are legitimate reasons why many, like me, aren't yet filled with confidence about this yet and all this talk of 'compulsory' just serves to polarise people IME.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

We'll see how many anti-vaxxers change their minds when they find out they can't go abroad without it.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Oh I know...but I am. I just mainly wanted to show my thinking and how those who think like I do aren't anti-vaxxers lacking self awareness and selfish cunts.

I think there are legitimate reasons why many, like me, aren't yet filled with confidence about this yet and all this talk of 'compulsory' just serves to polarise people IME.

But this conversation started with a poster agreeing with Fox. I would very much hope that compulsion wouldn't be necessary, although as I said, I can see it becoming a requirement for travel. But to frame this as a question of liberty and principle is wrongheaded. The wellbeing of others is involved, so freedoms need to be balanced - because in this instance, my freedom not to have the vaccination impinges on your freedom to enjoy the benefits of herd immunity. It's really not so different from the stupid arguments over masks.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

I don't see the point of calling people cunts about this tbh, full on loons aside. I wonder what people who don't feel like they should take the vaccine expect to happen instead though. Everyone else takes it so they don't have to? People are expected to carry on complying with restrictions for their benefit?

 

[two sheds]

I presume they're saying that they want to wait until they see whether there are nasty side effects and will take precautions until they feel ready to have it.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

But this conversation started with a poster agreeing with Fox. I would very much hope that compulsion wouldn't be necessary, although as I said, I can see it becoming a requirement for travel. But to frame this as a question of liberty and principle is wrongheaded. The wellbeing of others is involved, so freedoms need to be balanced - because in this instance, my freedom not to have the vaccination impinges on your freedom to enjoy the benefits of herd immunity. It's really not so different from the stupid arguments over masks.

"A poster" would be me. I have a name. If you want to talk about me that's fine, but at least involve me in the conversation, if only out of courtesy. Ta.

 

[DaveCinzano]

TAKE BACK CONTROL

 

[Orang Utan]

"A poster" would be me. I have a name. If you want to talk about me that's fine, but at least involve me in the conversation, if only out of courtesy. Ta.

You’re already in the conversation

 

[Treacle Toes]

I presume they're saying that they want to wait until they see whether there are nasty side effects and will take precautions until they feel ready to have it.

Which is sensible isn't it?

I understand the 'urgency' to find something to deal with Covid obviously.

 

[SpookyFrank]

That's not what twats like Laurence Fox are on about, though. He sees it as his right not to have it, as an invasion of liberty to even suggest that it should have elements of compulsion to it. And I repeat. If you refuse the jab for no good reason, you are being selfish and antisocial. You're refusing to do something that would help other people.

People aren't going to be held down against their will and jabbed, anyway. What could well happen is something that used to be very common - no travel without the vaccination. My mum had to have the smallpox jab before she could visit North America in the 1950s - she'd already had it, but had to have it again anyway to get her visa. That kind of thing very easily could come in for Covid. In fact, I'll be very surprised if it doesn't.

That'd be shit for people like me who are on medical advice not to get vaccinations.

Generally I hate anything that has the form, 'it's not compulsory, unless you want to do x, y and z things you will definitely need to do at some point'.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

That'd be shit for people like me who are on medical advice not to get vaccinations.

Presumably you would obtain an exemption.

It's precisely because people like you exist that others need to have it.

 

[8ball]

Then I’ll wait to see the long term effects are. Something that no amount of reading at this stage will tell me because the long-term studies haven’t been done.

Though a little reading should tell you about whether vaccine side effects, when they happen, tend to occur very rapidly or are a 'long term' concern.

 

[editor]

If it wasn't for Facebook and YouTube, the amount of people coming up with sometimes bizarre objections for what might be a life saving vaccine would be fucking miniscule.
Instead of reading the deluded drivel from conspiracy loons we'd rely on our own experiences of vaccines which have already spared us from some horrible diseases.

 

[butchersapron]

Pro covid scientists. Like fox and worriers

 

[SpookyFrank]

Presumably you would obtain an exemption.

It's precisely because people like you exist that others need to have it.

Yes indeed and I am virulently (pun intended) anti-antivaxer for this reason.

 

[Pickman's model]

If it wasn't for Facebook and YouTube, the amount of people coming up with sometimes bizarre objections for what might be a life saving vaccine would be fucking miniscule.
Instead of reading the deluded drivel from conspiracy loons we'd rely on our own experiences of vaccines which have already spared us from some horrible diseases.

the mmr vaccine controversy began when zuckerberg was 14 The MMR vaccine and autism: Sensation, refutation, retraction, and fraud

 

[littlebabyjesus]

If it wasn't for Facebook and YouTube, the amount of people coming up with sometimes bizarre objections for what might be a life saving vaccine would be fucking miniscule.
Instead of reading the deluded drivel from conspiracy loons we'd rely on our own experiences of vaccines which have already spared us from some horrible diseases.

Yep. Smallpox, TB (virtually), polio. Used to be endemic. All gone or very nearly gone. Cos of vaccination. Vaccination and antibiotics are the two great triumphs of medicine over the last century.

 

[editor]

the mmr vaccine controversy began when zuckerberg was 14 The MMR vaccine and autism: Sensation, refutation, retraction, and fraud

Yes I know that but I'm talking about what's happening now, with QAnon and the mass of anti-vaxx drivel spread through social media.

 

[two sheds]

Which is sensible isn't it?

I understand the 'urgency' to find something to deal with Covid obviously.

Yep I can quite understand it. Being vulnerable myself I'm going to wait at least a little while before deciding to take i. But there again I'm perfectly happy with shutting myself away for lockdown which isn't true for everyone.

I'd imagine that by the time they get to my age group (assuming key workers, then 80+ then 70+ get priority) it will hopefully be clear what it's all like and I'll happily take it.

eta: happily = gratefully

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Maybe if we still had in our collective memory the horrible effects of diseases that vaccination has eradicated, there would be less opposition. The eradication has been so successful that I think some people don't realise just how fucking bad they were.

 

[Pickman's model]

Yes I know that but I'm talking about what's happening now, with QAnon and the mass of anti-vaxx drivel spread through social media.

if you knew that then i don't understand why you don't grasp my point that there are no good grounds for your assertion.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Pro covid scientists. Like fox and worriers

Is that supposed to be aimed at me?

 

[scifisam]

Maybe if we still had in our collective memory the horrible effects of diseases that vaccination has eradicated, there would be less opposition. The eradication has been so successful that I think some people don't realise just how fucking bad they were.

Maybe, but like I said, there was huge opposition to the smallpox vaccination too, and has been for most vaccinations since. Anyway, TBH Laurence Fox's thread doesn't deserve us talking about this subject seriously.

 

[butchersapron]

Is that supposed to be aimed at me?

Of course. Is there some confusion here?

 

[8ball]

If it wasn't for Facebook and YouTube, the amount of people coming up with sometimes bizarre objections for what might be a life saving vaccine would be fucking miniscule.
Instead of reading the deluded drivel from conspiracy loons we'd rely on our own experiences of vaccines which have already spared us from some horrible diseases.

I can understand some concern about the speed of the rollout, and the posters on here expressing concerns have never struck me as typical loons.

The prioritisation of the search for a vaccine and the speed of getting trials done has been unprecedented due to the impact of this disease, and people need to take a closer look at the available information before concluding there is anything iffy here safety-wise, though. We really didn't know how long a vaccine would take, and imo we got pretty lucky.

The amount of data on the most promising covid vaccine trials far outstrips a lot of new drugs at point of rollout. A few trials were halted so that they could investigate a single person out of several thousand becoming unwell, so that the vaccine could be ruled out as a cause. I haven't looked closely at all the studies, but I haven't seen anything relating to the Pfizer and AZ vaccine trials that would dent my confidence at all in terms of safety (I've worked in clinical trials for a couple of decades and have been involved with the tech behind some of the Covid treatment studies - I wanted to work on one of the vaccine ones but was tied up with other stuff at the time). The only thing I'm a little wary of is the optimism of some of the efficacy estimates, which are published without the inherent error parameters that come with estimating an effect from large samples, a lot of it collected at times when small numbers of people were catching the disease.

Main side effect of most of the candidate vaccines at this point is a sore arm for a bit. Same as with heaps of vaccines.

I agree with you about social media's amplification of all manner of paranoias. The sad thing is that people get sick at times for all sorts of reasons, and we have months ahead of media of all kinds peddling stories about people who had the vaccine and then became sick.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Of course. Is there some confusion here?

No confusion at all. I've always known you to be a passive aggressive little prick.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

You know what, fuck this place.