Lampedusa boat disaster: Divers recover more bodies

[Idris2002]

was actually talking about eritreas "intresting" take on conscription i.e. For life
Rather than the UNs inability to get involved in shooting wars where on of the countrys has no resources or is strageticly unimportant.

1. Conscription was originally for 18 months. The Badme war and its aftermath turned it into a "for the duration" deal. And that's how Eritrea became a giant prison for people who hadn't done anything wrong.

2. Eritrea was always strategically important, and with Yemen sliding down the toilet is likely to become more so.

 

[campanula]

I have heard nothing which actually addresses the future needs of a potentially huge movement of people from one place to another. Shelter, food, healthcare....these are the most immediate requirements, but in the longer term, I am wondering who will take responsibility for an influx of people - local councils already reeling under a cutting regime? Private landlords (who are possibly rubbing their hands in glee)? There is an absolute disconnect between policy makers and the nuts and bolts of feeding and caring for thousands of traumatised people.

This seafaring tragedy is the inevitable result of global capitalism - I fear for everyone because we live under a tissue-thin veneer of civility and fairness...which can be shredded with just a tiny nudge.

 

[likesfish]

Farage was on the news suggesting its purely greece and italys problem wanker

That said if its seen as a route into the UK loads more will try
Helping people in their own country spunds great somalis a war zone eritrias a hell hole syria war zone etc etc etc

 

[alfajobrob]

Pages and pages of mealy mouthed semi disguised anti immigration bullshit.

What wrong with being anti immigration and why is it bullshit?

Are you shouting "racist" for people that disagree perchance?

 

[campanula]

In truth, the sheer visceral horror of these drownings has deranged my thinking a bit...the numbers of refugees across the globe are mindboggling - millions of people on the move. It all feels a bit...apocalyptic

 

[alfajobrob]

In truth, the sheer visceral horror of these drownings has deranged my thinking a bit...the numbers of refugees across the globe are mindboggling - millions of people on the move. It all feels a bit...apocalyptic

It hasn't even started yet imo...give it 10/15 years and then we will see real barriers being put up. I hope I'm wrong, but doubt it.

 

[coley]

Dp

 

[coley]

Pages and pages of mealy mouthed semi disguised anti immigration bullshit.

Yes and no, pages of people wondering what the humane practical solution would be, with the odd anti immigration stance creeping in, would be a more fair description?

 

[coley]

the silly thing is that actually Europe, with an ageing population, could really rather do with 50m mainly young, probably fit and healthy, motivated, educated people for whom the trip across the Med was probably the easiest and safest bit - however given the botched way that immigration has been handled for decades and the political climate that has arisen across Europe over the issue, such a policy is, in the near term, only marginally more likely to be politically acceptable than giving schoolkids dogshit for lunch.

where we are is not where we ought to be, but we will not be where we ought to be anytime in the near future, so any solution put forward has to deal with this years 'sailing season' rather than yelling at the moon about there not being enough Unicorns.

I think the problem with that line of reasoning, is that the politicians are concentrating their energies on how to 'accommodate' the influx of legal immigrants coming from the opposite direction?

 

[coley]

It hasn't even started yet imo...give it 10/15 years and then we will see real barriers being put up. I hope I'm wrong, but doubt it.

If the CC deniers are right you have little to worry about, if they are wrong, then I would be preparing your 'survivalist precautions' on a tighter timescale

 

[alfajobrob]

If the CC deniers are right you have little to worry about, if they are wrong, then I would be preparing your 'survivalist precautions' on a tighter timescale

"'survivalist precautions'"....eh?

I live in South London...it's all good.

Anyway I'm just a miserable fuck..show me a better model/prediction?

 

[coley]

"'survivalist precautions'"....eh?

I live in South London...it's all good.

Anyway I'm just a miserable fuck..show me a better model/prediction?

South London eh? Then you won't have to wait too long for the acopclips' and the Heid Zombie, sign up with friedaweed now, and get issued with your .177 survivalist special

 

[alfajobrob]

South London eh? Then you won't have to wait too long for the acopclips' and the Heid Zombie, sign up with friedaweed now, and get issued with your .177 survivalist special

 

[coley]

@friedaweed will explain all, you need protection from the expected exodus of man eating rats he has recently encountered
ETA, shouldn't be cracking jokes on this thread, apologies in advance.

 

[Casually Red]

and you're showing you've the courage of your convictions by putting down £500 and standing for Parliament on a 'let everyone who lives in some frightening hellhole come and live here' ticket are you?

smug, self-satisfied pronouncements - with absolutely no policy proposals that might contain challenging political ambitions - are cheap. rather like the pronouncements of a man so irrelevent he can't remember that he voted for a course of action he now decries, and can't remember he has made no reference to a growing consequence in the past 5 years but that suddenly now becomes a great issue of state.

you're usually rather better than that, you're certainly a lot smarter than that. #noborders isn't a viable European political policy and you know it, so any chance of a decent policy that both achieves something and fits in with whats politically possible?

Very good post

She's full of judgemental self righteous holier than thou shit mind

Like a few other cool kids

 

[Casually Red]

Yes, well, we in the UK have an extra layer of difficulty for refugees to negotiate - the channel- which effectively means that it is not seen as our problem yet. I wonder how sanguine and willing to make sacrifices you might be if you are a struggling Italian... because as always, the decisions are made by ruling elites but it is invariably those who are already struggling who will be asked to sacrifice the most...or are you effectively deaf to the hateful poverty-denial, filthy scroungers rhetoric already filling our media outlets. Or perhaps we should all feel ashamed on behalf of our masters and offer up a spare room, a tithe of our income, a school place, a needful health procedure... I suggest you very clearly look into your own heart and ask yourself exactly what sacrifices you, personally, are prepared to put up with before weighing in with the anti-immigration accusations as this sort of shit just further accentuates the divisions between those who have and those who do not.

I'll happily give up a third of my income, which is fuck all anyway " majorly low pay . For the Sake of justice ill happily eat millet, if the object of the exercise is to make the fucks that strip affica eat lead . These
Ibertaroan open border fantasy arseholes just want bono to write another song and make all the bad things that aren't sugar and spice and all things nice go away . As if by magic . Wankers .

 

[WoodElf]

I'll happily give up a third of my income, which is fuck all anyway " majorly low pay . For the Sake of justice ill happily eat millet, if the object of the exercise is to make the fucks that strip affica eat lead . These
Ibertaroan open border fantasy arseholes just want bono to write another song and make all the bad things that aren't sugar and spice and all things nice go away . As if by magic . Wankers .

If you'd give up your money for the sake of justice then you'd also give it up to keep your job, which is cheaper and keeps the shareholders happy

 

[campanula]

I'll happily give up a third of my income, which is fuck all anyway " majorly low pay . For the Sake of justice ill happily eat millet, if the object of the exercise is to make the fucks that strip affica eat lead . These
Ibertaroan open border fantasy arseholes just want bono to write another song and make all the bad things that aren't sugar and spice and all things nice go away . As if by magic . Wankers .

Yep, I would too, but only if that ridiculous stance 'we are all in it together' can actually be brought about. And there lies the nub, I suspect, because by and large, humans can be as co-operative as they can be divisive but there has to be a sense that we are ALL pulling in the right direction, unlike the current situation where we have a minority of exploiters hollowing out a swathe of people who have not been insulated from the swings of fate/luck/justice.

 

[phildwyer]

the silly thing is that actually Europe, with an ageing population, could really rather do with 50m mainly young, probably fit and healthy, motivated, educated people

This is the point.

The populations of Western nations need to learn that immigration benefits them.

 

[campanula]

Erm yes, Phil, but isn't this just more of the same -stripping back resources including human capital for the benefit of the West. How does the loss of young. talented, educated people benefit their country of origin.

 

[campanula]

Oh, right, I s'pose you could fall back on the sending money home argument but it just seems as though exploitation continues...only instead of stealing commodities (and land), we now employ labour at the cheapest possible price and congratulate ourselves for our liberal humanitarian thinking while cheerfully robbing poorer countries in order to continue to prop up a puffed up and probably unsustainable level of comfort. As far as I see it - employers and landlords benefit while the rest of us just get pushed around, scrabbling about for crumbs.

 

[WoodElf]

It 'benefits the economy' but so does 'The City of London'. There is much more to a country than 'the economy'

And noone ever disputed that legal immigration was essential for an economy to function, thousands of refugees aren't good for the economy, the rich countries do need to absorb refugees just because of where they are coming from, but it should be an emergency that thousands of people are leaving their homes and getting on dinghies to come to Europe. This idea that it's just a fact of life is disgusting, "African's flee warzone's and get on dangerous boats from Libya to Italy, it's completely natural, if you disagree you are rascist

 

[DotCommunist]

Very good post

She's full of judgemental self righteous holier than thou shit mind

Like a few other cool kids

you mean she's pulled you on your shit more than once. Why not give her shit for being jewish again? that went so well for you last time

 

[cuppa tee]

Charlie Hebdo's take on matters.................

 

[Casually Red]

That's pretty much always been that rags take on matters .

 

[Idris2002]

Charlie Hebdo's take on matters.................

TASS is authorised to announce that this is not a Charlie Hebdo cartoon, but was published in an Algerian newspaper:

https://homoeconomicusnet.wordpress...-publish-that-mediterranean-drowning-cartoon/

 

[cuppa tee]

TASS is authorised to announce that this is not a Charlie Hebdo cartoon, but was published in an Algerian newspaper:

https://homoeconomicusnet.wordpress...-publish-that-mediterranean-drowning-cartoon/

apologies and thanks, I will post your link on the facebook page where I saw it............

 

[Casually Red]

They didn't publish it, they just employ the cartoonist who drew it .

 

[phildwyer]

Erm yes, Phil, but isn't this just more of the same -stripping back resources including human capital for the benefit of the West. How does the loss of young. talented, educated people benefit their country of origin.

Because they send money home, as you acknowledge in your next post.

That is admittedly a short-term benefit. In the long-term, immigration benefits the host country and harms the country of origin. If Europeans can begin to understand that, their opposition to immigration will decline. That is a good thing, because there is going to be much, much more south-to-north immigration over the next decades. If that development is greeted with hostility, disaster looms.

 

[nino_savatte]

I see a difference between the normal movement of people and mass migration into one area.

What is "mass migration" aside from a over-dramatisation? I'm only surprised you haven't tried to paint a picture of invading armies and filthy hordes.

But again, what is your solution beyond righteous indignation?

"Righteous indignation"? Hilarious.

Do you think Europe (and by Europe I mean a handful of Northern European states) should just re-home all migrants and refugees? This is what you appear to be suggesting, correct me if I'm wrong.

Let 'em drown, eh? You're a real humanitarian.