Johann Hari admits copying and pasting interview quotes

[love detective]

If Hari now accepts it's not normal practice and unacceptable - he surely now has a duty to expose these Interviewers at British newspapers who re-assured him that it's normal practice and have done it themselves (assuming of course they exist)

 

[Citizen66]

it's not clear that he's not contradicting himself either though is it

Interviewers for British newspapers could well include the sub-set who were experienced journalists at the Independent

Also if he's not contradicting himself - what basis does he have to speculate that his experienced colleagues at the Independent would frown upon it, when he himself has actually spoken to Interviewers at British newspapers who have confirmed to him that it is normal practice? Surely based on the evidence he's actually collected from Interviewers at British newspapers he should be speculating that his experienced colleagues at the Independent would also view it as normal practice no?

Because in my line of work, for example, there's set procedures of what is right and wrong. Now, not everyone goes entirely as the rule book states all of the time. If I asked people in a similar role to me who worked elsewhere if they had ever, for example, used a ladder to access some equipment to repair something then they're likely to say they have; even though H&S dictates we can only use ladders for inspection purposes. In fact I know they have.

If I were to ask colleagues in my department whether I should use a ladder to access somewhere to repair something, I imagine they'd tell me to demand the company provides me with a MEWP instead.

They certainly would if it was after I'd fallen off a ladder I asked for the advice.

It's two different questions. Have you done this? Do you think I should do this? To two different groups of people. Why should the answer be the same?

Why the desperation to prove he's lying? It strikes me that he perhaps isn't.

 

[Random]

It's two different questions. Have you done this? Do you think I should do this? To two different groups of people. Why should the answer be the same?

Now you're the one going out on a limb. It's fairly obvious, he says in almost as many words, that he was asking them to pass judgement on whether what he was doing was ok.

 

[gosub]

He is talking about two separate things - one speculation the other not - involving two different sets of people. This is desperate bottom of the barrel stuff. There's enough to criticise him for without weakening your position by this piss poor stuff.

The desperate bottom of the barrel is the grited teeth apology, on the day of an enquiry ended.

 

[love detective]

To two different groups of people. Why should the answer be the same?

So there's absolutely no cross over between:-

a) Interviewers at British Newspapers, and

b) Experienced journalists at the Independent

 

[Random]

If Hari now accepts it's not normal practice and unacceptable - he surely now has a duty to expose these Interviewers at British newspapers who re-assured him that it's normal practice and have done it themselves (assuming of course they exist)

He should expose them, or at least confront them in a jesus-loving kind of way and offer them the chance to redeem themselves by also jetting off to the Huffingdon Post or similar.

 

[love detective]

if he doesn't he's part of a cover up - which itself should be exposed

 

[Citizen66]

So there's absolutely no cross over between:-

a) Interviewers at British Newspapers, and

b) Experienced journalists at the Independent

What's that got to do with the price of fish?

1) He's asking two different questions to two different groups of people.

2) One he gave the answer given while the other he speculatated on the response.

Why would the answers given be the same? I've just taken time to illustrate my train of thought. Do you think there's no cross-over between people in my department and maintenance workers elsewhere in my company?

 

[Citizen66]

What's so difficult about it?

Have you ever done this dodgy practice? Yes. Would you advise that I do this dodgy practice? no.

 

[Random]

If I asked people in a similar role to me who worked elsewhere if they had ever, for example, used a ladder to access some equipment to repair something then they're likely to say they have; even though H&S dictates we can only use ladders for inspection purposes. In fact I know they have.

But what would your colleagues say if you said "I've done this, is it ok?" They'd probably warn you of the fact that it was against regulations and dangerous. In fact, they'd probably warn you of this even if they told you it was basically ok as long as you weren't found out.

 

[Citizen66]

Now you're the one going out on a limb. It's fairly obvious, he says in almost as many words, that he was asking them to pass judgement on whether what he was doing was ok.

What people can advise on a professional level (especially in hindsight) and what they themselves are guilty of doing exist in different postcodes.

 

[love detective]

What's that got to do with the price of fish?

1) He's asking two different questions to two different groups of people.

2) One he gave the answer given while the other he speculatated on the response.

Why would the answers given be the same? I've just taken time to illustrate my train of thought. Do you think there's no cross-over between people in my department and maintenance workers elsewhere in my company?

why do you keep insisting they are two different groups of people - there's nothing to say they are (or that they aren't)

 

[Citizen66]

But what would your colleagues say if you said "I've done this, is it ok?" They'd probably warn you of the fact that it was against regulations and dangerous. In fact, they'd probably warn you of this even if they told you it was basically ok as long as you weren't found out.

Ok, here's another angle. Just because I've hoovered up a shit load of drugs up my nostrils in my time doesn't automatically equate that I'd advise my girlfriend's daughter to do the same.

Have you taken drugs? Yes.

Would you advise that I should take drugs? No.

Have you ever plagiarised someone? Yes.

Should I plagiarise someone?

What answer would you give, in a professional capacity?

 

[Random]

What people can advise on a professional level (especially in hindsight) and what they themselves are guilty of doing exist in different postcodes.

But you're saying they'd not even see it as being guilty of anything

 

[Citizen66]

why do you keep insisting they are two different groups of people - there's nothing to say they are (or that they aren't)

Ok forget the two different groups of people. It's two different questions. It's likely to get different answers from the same group of people. Experience tells me it does.

 

[Citizen66]

But you're saying they'd not even see it as being guilty of anything

The question is posed concurrently with the shitstorm. Do you seriously suggest they'd tell him it's ok with this crap flying at him?

 

[love detective]

What's so difficult about it?

Have you ever done this dodgy practice? Yes. Would you advise that I do this dodgy practice? no.

if something is defined as 'normal practice' then surely this is sanctioning that behaviour?

 

[Random]

Ok, here's another angle. Just because I've hoovered up a shit load of drugs up my nostrils in my time doesn't automatically equate that I'd advise my girlfriend's daughter to do the same.

Have you taken drugs? Yes.

Would you advise that I should take drugs? No.

Have you ever plagiarised someone? Yes.

Should I plagiarise someone?

What answer would you give, in a professional capacity?

Mate, look at the quote - he says that these interviewers basically said "it's cool, go ahead". You'd not do that to a kid who asked about drugs, would you? At the very least you'd mention that there are some risks with drugs, and that they are illegal

 

[Citizen66]

Look, this is meandering oceans away from what I said. I stated the quotes aren't contradictory. Let's stick to that. In what way are they contradictory? I mean, without inventing a narrative that suits your argument.

 

[love detective]

The question is posed concurrently with the shitstorm. Do you seriously suggest they'd tell him it's ok with this crap flying at him?

well according to him, lots did

 

[Citizen66]

if something is defined as 'normal practice' then surely this is sanctioning that behaviour?

Provide evidence that the interviewers 'from British newspapers' that said that are one and the same as his colleagues. Otherwise it's pure conjecture.

 

[Random]

Look, this is meandering oceans away from what I said. I stated the quotes aren't contradictory. Let's stick to that. In what way are they contradictory? I mean, without inventing a narrative that suits your argument.

How is it doing that, when I'm replaying directly to your post, and using your own hypothetical example?

 

[Citizen66]

well according to him, lots did

No. He asked them if they had ever done it. They said they had. They said it was 'normal practice'. That isn't the same as telling someone something is ok.

 

[love detective]

Provide evidence that the interviewers 'from British newspapers' that said that are one and the same as his colleagues. Otherwise it's pure conjecture.

I have never argued that they were - i've only argued against your assertion that they were definitely two completely separate and mutually exclusive sets of people - i.e. you claimed it was impossible for the two things to contradict each other, i merely put forward the fact that they were possibly contradictory

but, assuming for the sake of argument they are not

do you believe Hari has a duty to expose those who have admitted to doing something that he now understands is unacceptable?

 

[Citizen66]

How is it doing that, when I'm replaying directly to your post, and using your own hypothetical example?

Because my examples don't appear to be working. Either you can't or are unwilling to take the points on board. And it's ridiculous to start debating the example (which isn't hypothetical btw).

So I'm asking you to tell me why you think the quotes are contradictory without inventing a narrative. Go by the words as they are presented only.

 

[Random]

No. He asked them if they had ever done it. They said they had. They said it was 'normal practice'. That isn't the same as telling someone something is ok.

"Yes son, me and your mother both snort coke"

 

[Random]

Because my examples don't appear to be working. Either you can't or are unwilling to take the points on board.

So I'm asking you to tell me why you think the quotes are contradictory without inventing a narrative. Go by the words as they are presented only.

Oh, I'm not saying they're contradictory at all. I'm just saying that either he talked to equally dishonest journos, or he's lying about having asked anyone at all.

 

[Citizen66]

I have never argued that they were - i've only argued against your assertion that they were definitely two completely separate and mutually exclusive sets of people - i.e. you claimed it was impossible for the two things to contradict each other, i merely put forward the fact that they were possibly contradictory

but, assuming for the sake of argument they are not

do you believe Hari has a duty to expose those who have admitted to doing something that he now understands is unacceptable?

They obviously don't think it is unacceptable. Neither does he. He does in hindsight, of course.

Would you expose people for unacceptable behaviour that you yourself had recently been caught doing? Seems a bit of a hypocritical position to adopt.

 

[Citizen66]

Oh, I'm not saying they're contradictory at all. I'm just saying that either he talked to equally dishonest journos, or he's lying about having asked anyone at all.

Which is fair enough. But both are conjecture. It's a narrative that suits your views on hari. The words as they are on the screen on that blog aren't contradictory like the blog implies. That was my only argument.

 

[love detective]

They obviously don't think it is unacceptable. Neither does he. He does in hindsight, of course.

Would you expose people for unacceptable behaviour that you yourself had recently been caught doing? Seems a bit of a hypocritical position to adopt.

seems a bit hypocritical to accept it's unacceptable but cover up for those who you know are/still doing it