nino_savatte
No pasaran!
1. You tend to view all benefit claimants as "idle".
2. I've never seen you take tax evaders to task in the same way as you do benefit claimants. In fact, I've never seen you mention them.
james purnell hate thread
- Thread starter killer b
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1. You tend to view all benefit claimants as "idle".
2. I've never seen you take tax evaders to task in the same way as you do benefit claimants. In fact, I've never seen you mention them.
Anyone else seen the gravel voiced 'ard bastard Benefit Fraud ads that have 'myseteriously' increased in frequency o'er the last few days? WE KNOW WHERE YOU LIVE, AND SO DO YOUR NEIGHBOURS WHO WORK FOR US!!!
they have been heard and then dismissed (sort of, technically) - by the government's own advisors!
Workfare is little more than a sop, anything more would be unworkable as Purnelltler well knows. He's a career hungry opportunist who don't care he himself wastes the public purse.
His ideas that the DWP should be involved in making ill people better (ie better enough to not die while working the economic seam for the token pittance) worry me greatly.
But the fact remains there are many times more people than jobs for them. End of story. What do you propose be done about these people, other than victimise then and make them feel bad about themselves - does that turn them into better prospects for employers then?
National Service? Fascism for the 21st century!
In case you aren't aware people are already being forced to work; that's the effect of the threat of sanctioning claimants.
why do you equate not having a 'job' with idleness (again)?
Why can't people like you answer these questions?
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
it conflicts with their essential hatred of anyone who doesn't derive pleasure solely through working
Agree that there are more people looking for work than there are jobs available but it is cruel in the extreme to sentence people to idleness and mental illness by not giving people something to do.
What utter drivel. Whats fascistic about cleaning up and improving the country by having a civil national service system. Thought free sixth form socialism from you. Must try harder.
Nothing wrong with people working just as long as they are rewarded. If I was dictator I'd be paying minium wage to the unemployed to help to rebuild the country.
Idleness or if you want to put it a different way existence with no purpose and no routine is damaging not only to individuals but to the country as a whole.
I've seen the offspring of aristos who have descended in to addiction etc because they have no purpose and the same thing happens at the bottom of the social scale as well.
Mostly yes.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
*jean luc enters stage left with a hand pressed firmly to forehead*
1. this statement is absurd and emotive. If you want the unemployed to do more with their time, give them more money. Or, don't assume that not having a job = idleness.
2. Fascism is about control and domination; forced economic conscription is fascistic. Of course spinning your argument doesn't change this, which is what you are doing by bringing up cleaning and communal improvemtn. But there are people who are paid to do this already, do you want them replaced by a free state-provided service. And, quite frankly, why is it the responsibility of people who claim benefits to clean up the streets? Do you assume that vandalism, graffiti and general mess, etc, is only made by those out of work?
3. How does paying peopel as little as you can legally get away with (and not enough to liev on) incentivise anyone?
I did voluntary work for a year when I wasn't working and I certainly didn't need paid work to define me.
Bollocks - I've been there idleness damaged me and the people around me.
But paying people to do something positive is not fucking fascism.
I was using the min wage asa a starting point.
Fair dos but it was work wasn't it. You kept your mind and yoru body active.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
I think you're a fucking halfwit, that's what I think.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
In Zachor's mind this "truth" holds sway.
Which says far more about his state of mind than it does about anything else.
Zachor is like all converts, a move to the right is swiftly followed by all sorts of extreme hard right notions.
btw, BBC TV coverage, appalling again, they have interviewed Purnell, the hard right MP Frank Field, that cow, Flint, and Tory M.P Michael Gove, not one person like John Mcdonnell who is totally oppossed to it, disgraceful.
bbc complaints, its your licence money!
Phone: 03700 100 222*
Textphone: 03700 100 212*
Write: BBC Complaints,
PO Box 1922
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G2 3WT
btw, BBC TV coverage, appalling again, they have interviewed Purnell, the hard right MP Frank Field, that cow, Flint, and Tory M.P Michael Gove, not one person like John Mcdonnell who is totally oppossed to it, disgraceful.
bbc complaints, its your licence money!
Phone: 03700 100 222*
Textphone: 03700 100 212*
Write: BBC Complaints,
PO Box 1922
Glasgow
G2 3WT
_angel_
.
The worst thing about all this knee jerk 'make them work, punish them' means it will stop people being able to volunteer on something of their choosing.
I volunteered somewhere that later translated into a paid job. I probably wouldn't be able to do that, now, so, ironically, their rules would have forced me into longer unemployment.
No I've just had a healthy dose of realism. I've lost count of the number of people who I've grown up with who due to extended periods on the dole have spiralled down in to booze and drug problems. I would say that most of these peoples problems stem from being treated as useless and the benefit rules compound this by not being flexible.
I sometimes wonder how many of those booze and drug and mental illness casualties would either still be here or in better state fo mind if purposeful activities had been provided for them. I found that becuase of t he traumatic way I lost my job I treated the period on the suck as a rest which I'd earned at first but after a few months I found that I was spiralling down and it was only by being given a shove into activity that I started to be more myself again.
I don't want to punish people with work I want to see people helped with work.
I really dont see whats halfwitted about that.
Angel, this is something that I'm worried about in the current scheme. If voluntary work starts to be conflated with forced work then that will devalue the voluntaryu work.
I think if people can't find work and there is a suitable voluntary activity for them to do that they've found themselves then I see no problem in supporting that provided that the person is actively seeking work.
_angel_
.
You should see a post by the mother of a schizophrenic son, on one of the forums I post on to see how half witted this really is...
.. some of these people want to work, a few hours a week and are going to end up 'thrown' onto JSA which makes no allowances for a relapse... so then, conversely, a lot of people who may be able to do a little work may be scared off from trying that, in case they get ill again and have no support.
In that case the problem isn't the idea of community work itself but how the system is administered.
_angel_
.
Well yes..... the whole point of these reforms ARE in the inflexible administration though....
'No I've just had a healthy dose of realism. I've lost count of the number of people who I've grown up with who due to extended periods on the dole have spiralled down in to booze and drug problems. I would say that most of these peoples problems stem from being treated as useless and the benefit rules compound this by not being flexible.'
Sadly , there will always be people who cannot cope with the brutalities, absurdities and strains of modern life, here they get benefits and care, in the US they end up in a non welfare system where 1% of its population are in prison.
Is that what you want?, you prick
Sadly , there will always be people who cannot cope with the brutalities, absurdities and strains of modern life, here they get benefits and care, in the US they end up in a non welfare system where 1% of its population are in prison.
Is that what you want?, you prick
Which is what worries me. I'm all for forcing people to contribute to their socity if they are able to but I've got grave reservations about how this system will be managed.
Sadly the honest and deserving will be shat upon by aspects of this policy whilst the deliberately idle and dishonest will scam theri way around the sanctions.
We have a criminal waste of talent in the UK and that problem needs to be addressed. I hope that this policy does something about it but I'm not over confident.
No I want those in need like you say helped. But I'm dubious how just chucking money at people in order for them to stay pissed in a bedsit helps them.
I do not want a US system I want a system that works.
are you suggesting that being out of work is more stressful than being in work?
Are you suggesting that a significant minority, if not a majority, of the unemployed are all on drugs/booze/fucked up?
Are you suggesting that by purposeful activity you mean work?
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