Is Elon Musk the greatest visionary or the greatest snake oil salesman of our age?

[DaveCinzano]

The only way that could ever happen is if Tesla are going totally bankrupt and having a fire sale

Every Tesla purchase is a potential fire sale

 

[two sheds]

"I finally saw my first Cybertruck"

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

With half a stroopwaffel as an added bonus.

 

[BigMoaner]

"I finally saw my first Cybertruck"


View attachment 443216

Better rust management tho

 

[Saul Goodman]

Better rust management tho

And doesn't take the piss as much as a Cybertruck does.

 

[Artaxerxes]

Extract from Character Limit: How Elon Musk Destroyed Twitter

 

[weltweit]

I use X for non political subjects only.

I did see a couple of political tweets by Musk and marked them as unwanted content. They went away, I am not interested in Musk's politics.

I did see one of his posts which I agreed with, he said if you want to have an idea of what a future with AI could look like you might read the Culture series of Sci-fi novels by Iain M Banks. I was tempted to respond that I agreed but that might only have encouraged him.

 

[kabbes]

I use X for non political subjects only. I am not interested in Musk's politics.

I did see one of his posts which I agreed with, he said if you want to have an idea of what a future with AI could look like you might read the Culture series of Sci-fi novels by Iain M Banks.

Sounds pretty fucking political to me

 

[lazythursday]

I use X for non political subjects only.

I did see a couple of political tweets by Musk and marked them as unwanted content. They went away, I am not interested in Musk's politics.

I did see one of his posts which I agreed with, he said if you want to have an idea of what a future with AI could look like you might read the Culture series of Sci-fi novels by Iain M Banks. I was tempted to respond that I agreed but that might only have encouraged him.

The odd thing about that of course is that the Culture is basically a techno-communist society, where you can change your gender on a whim, which makes one wonder on his basic reading comprehension.

 

[Rimbaud]

The Bitcoin bros who want to crowdfund a new country

How a group of Silicon Valley tech entrepreneurs plan to create "the network state."

www.bbc.com

I found this article very interesting, about a kind of crypto-bro cult who want to found a new city.

It isn't directly related to Musk but I think these are likely close to him ideologically and are apparently funded by Peter Thiel.

It is interesting to see a new elite fascist moving forming. I knew from reading history that fascism was an elite movement which recruited from the petty-bourgeois and lumpen proletariat but most of the far-right I had come across (EDL types mostly) were definitely in the latter camp. Kind of interesting to see how elite fascism looks like in the 21st Century and gives me a clearer idea of how things probably were in the 1930s.

Interesting, but also terrifying.

 

[tommers]

The Bitcoin bros who want to crowdfund a new country

How a group of Silicon Valley tech entrepreneurs plan to create "the network state."

www.bbc.com

I found this article very interesting, about a kind of crypto-bro cult who want to found a new city.

It isn't directly related to Musk but I think these are likely close to him ideologically and are apparently funded by Peter Thiel.

It is interesting to see a new elite fascist moving forming. I knew from reading history that fascism was an elite movement which recruited from the petty-bourgeois and lumpen proletariat but most of the far-right I had come across (EDL types mostly) were definitely in the latter camp. Kind of interesting to see how elite fascism looks like in the 21st Century and gives me a clearer idea of how things probably were in the 1930s.

Interesting, but also terrifying.

They already tried it with a boat or something. It was an absolute fucking disaster IIRC.

Here

The disastrous voyage of Satoshi, the world’s first cryptocurrency cruise ship

The long read: Last year, three cryptocurrency enthusiasts bought a cruise ship. They named it the Satoshi, and dreamed of starting a floating libertarian utopia. It didn’t work out

www.theguardian.com

 

[kabbes]

They’re bizarrely naive. Not that it’s bizarre that they are naive, but that their naivety is bizarrely extreme. They seem to have absolutely zero recognition of the role of violence in state governance, for a start. Like when they pitched their cryptopian boat off the shore of whatever east Asian state it was (Indonesia?) and expected to be just left alone to make whatever laws they wanted, only to find themselves at the wrong end of a gunboat. They seem to think that if they can just write the right algorithm, people will just obey.

 

[tommers]

They’re bizarrely naive. Not that it’s bizarre that they are naive, but that their naivety is bizarrely extreme. They seem to have absolutely zero recognition of the role of violence in state governance, for a start. Like when they pitched their cryptopian boat off the shore of whatever east Asian state it was (Indonesia?) and expected to be just left alone to make whatever laws they wanted, only to find themselves at the wrong end of a gunboat. They seem to think that if they can just write the right algorithm, people will just obey.

Naive is a good word.

I don't particularly want to generalise but in lots of areas of life there is a tendency to think that because a person is incredibly intelligent in one area they are intelligent in all areas.

 

[BigMoaner]

The Bitcoin bros who want to crowdfund a new country

How a group of Silicon Valley tech entrepreneurs plan to create "the network state."

www.bbc.com

I found this article very interesting, about a kind of crypto-bro cult who want to found a new city.

It isn't directly related to Musk but I think these are likely close to him ideologically and are apparently funded by Peter Thiel.

It is interesting to see a new elite fascist moving forming. I knew from reading history that fascism was an elite movement which recruited from the petty-bourgeois and lumpen proletariat but most of the far-right I had come across (EDL types mostly) were definitely in the latter camp. Kind of interesting to see how elite fascism looks like in the 21st Century and gives me a clearer idea of how things probably were in the 1930s.

Interesting, but also terrifying.

“Disrupt”, “legacy institutions” - it’s all there. Wouldn’t trust them as far as I could throw them.

 

[BigMoaner]

But this is not in my view fascism, but liberalism. Just turn everything into ease and money. It’s the ideology of “make everything easier”. Which our culture assumes is better. Amazon is easier but my high street is now a shit hole. Kindle is easier but I loose the pleasure of walking through my town to the library, bumping into friends as I go. Tinder is easier but I never ever make a move in public because of it. These guys are transforming everything don’t be fooled. And it’s a form of liberalism in my view. Money and “do as we like”.

 

[hitmouse]

 

[Rimbaud]

But this is not in my view fascism, but liberalism. Just turn everything into ease and money. It’s the ideology of “make everything easier”. Which our culture assumes is better. Amazon is easier but my high street is now a shit hole. Kindle is easier but I loose the pleasure of walking through my town to the library, bumping into friends as I go. Tinder is easier but I never ever make a move in public because of it. These guys are transforming everything don’t be fooled. And it’s a form of liberalism in my view. Money and “do as we like”.

I see your point but their rhetoric about philosopher kings and such seems like something other than liberalism.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

2 years old and still kinda funny



The fact it gets worse is extra spice

 

[kabbes]

I see your point but their rhetoric about philosopher kings and such seems like something other than liberalism.

I dunno. It seems all in tune with Enlightenment positivist humanistic liberalism to me.

 

[Rimbaud]

I dunno. It seems all in tune with Enlightenment positivist humanistic liberalism to me.

Did you read the full article? It includes people who advocate monarchy and are explicitly anti-Enlightenment.

Like this guy:

Curtis Yarvin - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

In his blog Unqualified Reservations, which he wrote from 2007 to 2014, and on his later Substack page called Gray Mirror, which he started in 2020, he argues that American democracy is a failed experiment[5] that should be replaced by an accountable monarchy, similar to the governance structure of corporations.[6] Yarvin has been described as a "neo-reactionary" and "neo-monarchist" who "sees liberalism as creating a Matrix-like totalitarian system and who wants to replace American democracy with a sort of techno-monarchy".[7][8][9]

...

Yarvin argues for a "neo-cameralist" philosophy based on Frederick the Great of Prussia's cameralism.[31] In Yarvin's view, democratic governments are inefficient and wasteful and should be replaced with sovereign joint-stock corporations whose "shareholders" (large owners) elect an executive with total power, but who must serve at their pleasure.[28] The executive, unencumbered by liberal-democratic procedures, could rule efficiently much like a CEO-monarch.[28] Yarvin admires Chinese leader Deng Xiaoping for his pragmatic and market-oriented authoritarianism, and the city-state of Singapore as an example of a successful authoritarian regime. He sees the US as soft on crime, dominated by economic and democratic delusions.[27]

Yarvin supports authoritarianism on right-libertarian grounds, claiming that the division of political sovereignty expands the scope of the state, whereas strong governments with clear hierarchies remain minimal and narrowly focused.[27

...

He described what he felt were flaws in the accepted "World War II mythology" alluding to the idea that Hitler's invasions were acts of self-defense. He argued these discrepancies were pushed by America's "ruling communists", who invented political correctness as an "extremely elaborate mechanism for persecuting racists and fascists". "If Americans want to change their government," he said, "they're going to have to get over their dictator phobia."[33]

...

Yarvin has alleged that whites have higher IQs than blacks for genetic reasons. He has been described as a modern-day supporter of slavery, a description he disputes.[54][19] He has claimed that some races are more suited to slavery than others.[19] In a post that linked approvingly to Steve Sailer and Jared Taylor, he wrote: "It should be obvious that, although I am not a white nationalist, I am not exactly allergic to the stuff."[31][55] In 2009, he wrote that since US civil rights programs were "applied to populations with recent hunter-gatherer ancestry and no great reputation for sturdy moral fiber", the result was "absolute human garbage."[56]

Doesn't seem in line with liberalism to me unless you are stretching the definition a lot.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Naive is a good word.

I don't particularly want to generalise but in lots of areas of life there is a tendency to think that because a person is incredibly intelligent in one area they are intelligent in all areas.

The other crypto-bro Sam Bankman Fried also springs to mind here. Being good at maths didn’t translate to being good at corporate governance.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Naive is a good word.

I don't particularly want to generalise but in lots of areas of life there is a tendency to think that because a person is incredibly intelligent in one area they are intelligent in all areas.

The ‘public intellectual’ is another manifestation of this problem. No, Richard Dorkins, you’re an evolutionary biologist, not an expert in religion. No Steven Pinker, you’re a psychologist, not a historian.

 

[two sheds]

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/09/20/tech/sec-sanctions-elon-musk-testimony-twitter-probe/index.html

The Securities and Exchange Commission intends to seek sanctions against Elon Musk over his failure to appear for testimony in an investigation related to his takeover of Twitter, now called X, the regulator said in a court filing Friday.

Earlier this year, a federal judge ordered Musk to testify as part of the SEC’s probe of the billionaire’s $44 billion acquisition. The agency is examining whether Musk followed the law when disclosing his purchases of Twitter stock and whether his statements in relation to the deal were misleading.

I doubt the sanctions will be too onerous

 

[kabbes]

Did you read the full article? It includes people who advocate monarchy and are explicitly anti-Enlightenment.

Like this guy:

Curtis Yarvin - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Doesn't seem in line with liberalism to me unless you are stretching the definition a lot.

Fair enough — what that guy is expounding is definitely something very different.

 

[DotCommunist]

I'vethought aboutthis for a while, apartheids long shadow

Musk, Thiel and the shadow of apartheid South Africa

paywall removed:

https://archive.ph/Y1Uz9

 

[Rimbaud]

Fair enough — what that guy is expounding is definitely something very different.

From reading his ideas it seems he is quite influential amongst the alt-right. Tate talking about "the Matrix" seems to be a reference to his idea that liberalism (or "progressivism" might be a better term as he doesn't mean economic liberalism here) creates a Matrix-like totalitarian system. He is also close to Thiel so he likely influences Musk's worldview as well.

 

[ska invita]

The Bitcoin bros who want to crowdfund a new country

How a group of Silicon Valley tech entrepreneurs plan to create "the network state."

www.bbc.com

I found this article very interesting, about a kind of crypto-bro cult who want to found a new city.

It isn't directly related to Musk but I think these are likely close to him ideologically and are apparently funded by Peter Thiel.

It is interesting to see a new elite fascist moving forming. I knew from reading history that fascism was an elite movement which recruited from the petty-bourgeois and lumpen proletariat but most of the far-right I had come across (EDL types mostly) were definitely in the latter camp. Kind of interesting to see how elite fascism looks like in the 21st Century and gives me a clearer idea of how things probably were in the 1930s.

Interesting, but also terrifying.

Naomi Klein wrote a short book about ongoing Puerto Rico buy out to create a tech bro parastate
....it's very real this stuff

The Battle For Paradise

Haymarket Books: books for changing the world.

www.haymarketbooks.org

 

[Jeremiah18.17]

From reading his ideas it seems he is quite influential amongst the alt-right. Tate talking about "the Matrix" seems to be a reference to his idea that liberalism (or "progressivism" might be a better term as he doesn't mean economic liberalism here) creates a Matrix-like totalitarian system. He is also close to Thiel so he likely influences Musk's worldview as well.

Added to that, the Hayekian strain of neoliberalism is not that far from fascism anyway. See Hayek’s espousal of the end of liberal democracy in favour of an all powerful council/junta/oligarchy of brilliant magnates and entrepreneurs…

 

[BigMoaner]

I see your point but their rhetoric about philosopher kings and such seems like something other than liberalism.

Got a feeling that once the new king is in place they’d spend five minutes worshipping him and then back to “disrupting” everything again. The average tech bro is just change for change sake. Their values of “innovation” trump seeing any value elsewhere. They are in a sense revolutionary but only if the revolution lines their pockets.

 

[BigMoaner]

It’s just the usual the market will solve everything but souped up and on steroids with little counterweight or value placed on things outside of a very narrow definition of “progress”.