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Is Desmond Tutu a rabid hater of Jews?

Grandma Death

Reconfiguring & Reconstructing
Following on from this locked thread that was (until it was locked) an interesting debate on whether criticism of Israel is tantamount to hatred of Jews.

When does criticism become anti semitic? Is desmond tutu overly critical? Can his words be taken as hatred of Jews or indeed Israel?

I'd be interested to know if indeed such claims hold any water?
 
''People are scared in this country, to say wrong is wrong because the Jewish lobby is powerful - very powerful. Well, so what? The apartheid government was very powerful, but today it no longer exists. Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Pinochet, Milosevic, and Idi Amin were all powerful, but in the end they bit the dust."

-- Desmond Tutu.

Note that Tutu does not compare the Israelı government to Hıtler (although Lord knows that would have been offensıve enough). He compares ''the Jewısh lobby'' to Hıtler. He looks forward to a day when ''the Jewısh lobby'' wıll ''bıte the dust.''

One doesn't have to be a Jew to see where that sort of thıng comes from. Or where ıt leads to eıther.
 
''People are scared in this country, to say wrong is wrong because the Jewish lobby is powerful - very powerful. Well, so what? The apartheid government was very powerful, but today it no longer exists. Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Pinochet, Milosevic, and Idi Amin were all powerful, but in the end they bit the dust."

-- Desmond Tutu.

Note that Tutu does not compare the Israelı government to Hıtler (although Lord knows that would have been offensıve enough). He compares ''the Jewısh lobby'' to Hıtler. He looks forward to a day when ''the Jewısh lobby'' wıll ''bıte the dust.''

One doesn't have to be a Jew to see where that sort of thıng comes from. Or where ıt leads to eıther.


Thats hardly evidence of a rabid hatred for jews is it?
 
Grandma: Constricticve Criticism, even non-Constructive Criticism is not tantamount to anti-Jewishness and I myself have taken great pains to say this over and over here and elsewhere. The problem lies in that many anti-Jews merely use the slightly more PC guise of criticsm of Israel to slide their horrid anti-Jewishenss.

For example, highly related to the thread's topic, Tutu made a speech where he said Jews contol the govt and the media, . After this huge gaffe cost him alot of speaking engagements (i.e. money) he almost always has taken pains to keep his criticism to that of Israel while in the next breath telling those listening that many Jews helped to topple the Aparthied Era Govt...In other words, like the old US commercial where the young boy and grandpa werer in their canoe, fishing, and the lad tells gradpa, "I have a Jewish friend in school Grandpa and he is very nice..." Grandoa sagely replies, "Jimmy, why do you tell me that he is Jewish?" "But why grandpa, he Is!" "Jimmy, if he is your friend his religion or ethnicity is of no importance. Jimmy is just your FRIEND." The kid looks a bit miffed but alos deep in thought. A paopular culture for a while, right about the time Uncle Sam instituted Affirmatice Action I believe.


Ergo, why would Tutu need to take great pains to repeatedly tell us to the point of monotony about hos some Jews helped to toppled Apartheid? And why did he only begin it in 2004 after media outcry hit him hard in the pocketbook since his public speaking appearances began to dry up rapidly.

Actual criticism of Israel is not only permissable but a great thing. Every nation should be secxure enough in its ideals and policies to be able to accept criticms from disenfranchised and other dempographics, and yes, even foreigners who generally do not have a clue past an Arab Website anbd the BBR World Report as to want is actually going on.

As stated though, too, too many people use it as a Politcally Correct excue to beat up on Israel. Ergo once again, such criticsm needs to be fully examined and not taken at face value. People like Tutu who have commnunist backgrounds, who have terrorist and leftis backgrouns should alwasy be examined as to their true program when making utereances in a place he himself had not been to for more than a decade.His associatioin with that atricious organ of the even more atrocious UN, defiled, defamed, and defanged especially leads a rational person to take anything old Tutu has to say as partiuclarly supect.
 
Grandma: Constricticve Criticism, even non-Constructive Criticism is not tantamount to anti-Jewishness and I myself have taken great pains to say this over and over here and elsewhere. The problem lies in that many anti-Jews merely use the slightly more PC guise of criticsm of Israel to slide their horrid anti-Jewishenss.

For example, highly related to the thread's topic, Tutu made a speech where he said Jews contol the govt and the media, . After this huge gaffe cost him alot of speaking engagements (i.e. money) he almost always has taken pains to keep his criticism to that of Israel while in the next breath telling those listening that many Jews helped to topple the Aparthied Era Govt...In other words, like the old US commercial where the young boy and grandpa werer in their canoe, fishing, and the lad tells gradpa, "I have a Jewish friend in school Grandpa and he is very nice..." Grandoa sagely replies, "Jimmy, why do you tell me that he is Jewish?" "But why grandpa, he Is!" "Jimmy, if he is your friend his religion or ethnicity is of no importance. Jimmy is just your FRIEND." The kid looks a bit miffed but alos deep in thought. A paopular culture for a while, right about the time Uncle Sam instituted Affirmatice Action I believe.


Ergo, why would Tutu need to take great pains to repeatedly tell us to the point of monotony about hos some Jews helped to toppled Apartheid? And why did he only begin it in 2004 after media outcry hit him hard in the pocketbook since his public speaking appearances began to dry up rapidly.

Actual criticism of Israel is not only permissable but a great thing. Every nation should be secxure enough in its ideals and policies to be able to accept criticms from disenfranchised and other dempographics, and yes, even foreigners who generally do not have a clue past an Arab Website anbd the BBR World Report as to want is actually going on.

As stated though, too, too many people use it as a Politcally Correct excue to beat up on Israel. Ergo once again, such criticsm needs to be fully examined and not taken at face value. People like Tutu who have commnunist backgrounds, who have terrorist and leftis backgrouns should alwasy be examined as to their true program when making utereances in a place he himself had not been to for more than a decade.His associatioin with that atricious organ of the even more atrocious UN, defiled, defamed, and defanged especially leads a rational person to take anything old Tutu has to say as partiuclarly supect.

Where are the links.

Where is the list?
 
Phil:Thank you for taking time I should have and posting the offending speech where he accuses the Jewish Lobby and then makes the comparison to Nazis,etc.

Donna: "Mind you the Israeli Govt. makes this same comprasion about everyone else": First, that is bltantly incorrect. Secondly, so what if it was right? That would then negate what Tutu said? I love that leap of logic! WELL, Israel says it so it must be ok for someone else to say it. One of the first thing young shool students learn is "2 Wrongs do not make one Right/" Tenmd to agree, what about you?

Israel very, very, very rarely has accused a non-Nazi of Nazi like actions. If you canme 3 instances, EVER, I would be surpised.
 
Grandma: Thank you, sincerely, for proving to this forum that you could not give a rat's as* about facts, and opnely about antagonising people. Phil provided the actual speech I was referring to. You want a whole list for what? Because I said I would provide it? Is the speech not sufficient proof that the man is as I say he is? What is the point I am wondering? Just to ride me, hoping I do not make a list so that you can continue on with this penny ante nonsense?
 
''People are scared in this country, to say wrong is wrong because the Jewish lobby is powerful - very powerful. Well, so what? The apartheid government was very powerful, but today it no longer exists. Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Pinochet, Milosevic, and Idi Amin were all powerful, but in the end they bit the dust."

-- Desmond Tutu.

Note that Tutu does not compare the Israelı government to Hıtler (although Lord knows that would have been offensıve enough). He compares ''the Jewısh lobby'' to Hıtler. He looks forward to a day when ''the Jewısh lobby'' wıll ''bıte the dust.''

One doesn't have to be a Jew to see where that sort of thıng comes from. Or where ıt leads to eıther.

I think the point is oppression never lasts, all empires/regimes collapse in time. As MLK said "The moral universe may be long but it does bend toward justice"...
 
Well sure, that it always a truth that noone can deny but when Tut uttered that soeech he directly connected the Jewish Lobby to the Nazis and other denigrating comprisons.
 
Grandma: Thank you, sincerely, for proving to this forum that you could not give a rat's as* about facts, and opnely about antagonising people. Phil provided the actual speech I was referring to.

Are you seriously telling me that speech is conclusive proof that Tutu is a rabi hater of jews?


You want a whole list for what? Because I said I would provide it?

Yes you did on several occasions to not only me but other posters.


Is the speech not sufficient proof that the man is as I say he is?

No it doesnt prove anything and if you really want to convince posters that he is a rabid hater of jews you're going to have to do much better than one speech which, lets face it, isnt evidence of what you claim


What is the point I am wondering? Just to ride me,

Once again-you made a claim. You promised to back it up. You have failed to do so. I'm not trying to ride you-I'm just trying to get you to provide something you promised on several occasions. If you are unable to do so then please say so-and we can be done with it.
 
Well sure, that it always a truth that noone can deny but when Tut uttered that soeech he directly connected the Jewish Lobby to the Nazis and other denigrating comprisons.

And yet, as on the " Desmond Tutu on Hamas & The Israeli Blockade of Gaza" thread, you avoid putting the speech into any proper context, don't you? :)

Why is that?
 
Tutu is a virtual Saint

he campaigned for years against a racist regime that treated people who were not the Chosen Ones like dirt, whose police were fond of shootiing children, much like your own security forces Rancidman.
He did not compare Israel to the Nazis, though I would really, the vast ghetto that you have made of Gazza puts Warsaw into the shade. So stick your toys back in your pram, pick up yer M16 and go have fun making some Palestinian grandmother stand in the sun why she waits to get to the one strio of her land that your "settlers" (another Nazi tacitc in Poland) haven't stolen from her.
It surprises me you are so sensitive so imagined slights when there are so many direct insults, such as you are murderous sorry for yourself waste of genetic material, for you to get on with
I pretty much despise every word you utter
 
Well sure, that it always a truth that noone can deny but when Tut uttered that soeech he directly connected the Jewish Lobby to the Nazis and other denigrating comprisons.

There's nothing in the text that suggests to any intelligent person that Tutu is an anti-Semite. It's a pretty desperate extrapolation to say the least.
 
Is this once again a case of painting someone who criticizes Israeli politics as a "Jew hater"?
Are Israelis who criticize their country's politics "Jewish Jew Haters"?
Q: when are such name callers going to wake up to the fact that the holocaust victims are turning in their graves (for as far as they have graves) because of the exploitation of their suffering by Zionists and all those who applaud Israel and all its criminal policies in past and present merely because it is Israel doing it.
A: They would call me "anti-semetic" (good joke) because they have no other answer to my question.


salaam.
 
Is this once again a case of painting someone who criticizes Israeli politics as a "Jew hater"?

Its looking exactly just like that. The promised list of examples of Tutus hatred for jews never materialised and it would appear the poster who made that claim is hanging on desperately to a piss poor example of a speech Tutu made which is nowhere near antisemitic or indeed evidence of jew hating.
 
A junkies ramble - aye Rabid/Rancidman is thatro is a bit liike the quote from Lear
"No more than a tale told by an idiot
Full of sound and Fury,
Signifying nothing"
 
A junkies ramble - aye Rabid/Rancidman is thatro is a bit liike the quote from Lear
"No more than a tale told by an idiot
Full of sound and Fury,
Signifying nothing"

Fırst of all, that quote ıs from 'Macbeth.' Secondly, you mısquote ıt horrıfıcally. And thırdly ıt has no relevance to the poınt you are attemptıng to make.

Apart from that ıt's quıte apt.
 
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