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*IRAQ: latest news and developments

All american heroine ..........

Jessica Lynch, has just been wheeled out for a press conference in Virginia. She hasn't actually said anything yet.

john x
 
From a soldier's father:
"My son is in the U.S.Army and currently stationed in Baghdad. I hear from him every three or four days. He is like most of the young men and women who went to fight over there inasmuch as he was proud to go and achieve what President Bush said was necessary. I have seen his attitude take a U-turn during the last month. At first he was saying: "I wonder why we are not doing this or that to help make life better for our soldiers?" Then he started to wonder why we were not doing more to help the Iraqi people who are suffering under terrible conditions. Not enough water or food, no electricity most of the time, a terrible shortage of medical supplies and medical staff, basically they are living like animals. Then he started to worry about the safety of our troops in the area. He says they are sitting ducks and easy targets for Iraqi people bent upon gaining revenge for slain family members and by those who hold the U.S. responsible for the terrible conditions they find themselves in. Yesterday he had a different message altogether."

"Get us out of here now! There is nothing we can do to pacify the Iraqi people except get out of their country and allow them to restore order in whatever way THEY wish."

And, allow me to give you his remarks when he was informed of President Bush's brash remarks saying "Bring them on." He said:

"Myself and every last man in my unit are deeply offended that our President would make such a statement inviting us to be attacked. President Bush has lost the respect of every soldier I have spoken to because of his speaking those irresponsible words. Those words spread like wild-fire amoung the troops. We are here because he ordered us to be here and now for him to make such a ridiculous statement inviting violence towards us causes us to lose respect for him and his judgement. We are learning that we never should have come here in the first place. Believe me Dad, there is a completely different attitude now. The fact that the President gave rich people a tax cut and didn't do anything for military families is hurtful. Where there was once pride and satisfaction in defeating an enemy there is now regret and shame. God Bless America.

Your loving Son, Donny
source: http://webx.tennessean.com/webx/cgi-bin/[email protected]^[email protected]/88
 
Antiwar Groups Say Public Ire Over Iraq Claims Is Increasing

By Evelyn Nieves
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, July 22, 2003; Page A03

SAN FRANCISCO -- The letters are pouring in like a water main break -- fast and, yes, furious. From Alabama: "We want to know the truth!" From Arizona: "If there's nothing to hide, what's the harm in a bipartisan inquiry?" From Mississippi: "We must get to the truth -- whatever it is!"

About 400,000 people from every state have contacted members of Congress in the past three weeks as part of a MoveOn.org petition that asks Congress to investigate the controversial claims that led to the war on Iraq, with more than 50,000 people signing on to the liberal activist Web site in the past five days alone.

"It seems more and more people who supported the war are signing on," said Eli Pariser, MoveOn.org's campaigns director. "They're angry. People who in the past couple of weeks before the war decided to support it are swinging back."

For organizations that opposed the war, these are busy days. Not since hundreds of thousands of people across the country marched in antiwar rallies in the weeks before the U.S.-led invasion has the rationale for the preemptive war come under such fire. The groups hope to galvanize a broad spectrum of the American people, a majority of whom supported the war, but with reservations. The goal is to persuade public officials to support an independent, bipartisan commission modeled on the panel investigating the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. In the week since the administration admitted that President Bush's State of the Union speech in January should not have mentioned that the British had "learned" Iraq had tried to buy uranium from Africa for a nuclear weapons program, antiwar groups say that more and more Americans have been contacting them, looking for answers.

"You know an issue has momentum," said Andrea Buffa, co-chair of the United for Peace and Justice coalition, "when people are coming into your office to ask if there's a protest planned about it."

full: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A25527-2003Jul21.html
 
British journalist snubbed when the obvious question as to why the 2 sons were not smoked out and kept alive, as the US army were in a situation where they were more than capable of doing so. Guess the decision came from above. Remember folks "patriotism means no questions".
 
Originally posted by whiterose
There was much rejoicing in Baghdad yesterday. It wasn’t so much for the alleged killing Saddam Hussein’s two sons’ but the sudden appearance of a blinking light on GSM handsets in the city. GSM roaming was in town. Unannounced, mobile roaming services became available to those armed with the appropriate handsets.

If GSM doesn't work in Iraq, how come Ragi Omar used his BBC mobile to report live on the statue falling down in Baghdad?

john x
 
Originally posted by bigfish
Probably because he was using the BBCs dedicated satellite up-link technology.
The uplink was used to beam the pictures back to London from the hotel roof but he definitely used a mobile phone to talk on. He was jumping up and down and waving, to show where he was next to the statue. Maybe the whole thing was even more staged than we originally suspected :eek:


Back on thread:

Washington hopes evidence that Uday and Qusay Hussein are indeed dead will undermine resistance to coalition forces in Iraq.
"Three American soldiers have been killed in Iraq, a US military spokesman has said.
The attack early on Thursday took place in northern Iraq.

Their deaths bring to five the number of US troops killed since Saddam Hussein's sons, Uday and Qusay, died in a shoot-out with American forces on Tuesday."

No sign of a let up then.

john x
 

The killing of Hussein’s sons: the Nuremberg precedent


US role at Nuremberg

The bloodlust and lawlessness of the present-day political establishment is placed in sharp relief by comparing its campaign of political assassination in Iraq with the attitude of the US to the treatment of fascist mass murderers captured at the end of World War II.

Less than sixty years ago, Washington opposed the summary execution of the leaders of Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan—who had committed crimes on a far more massive scale than any carried out by the regime of Saddam Hussein—and insisted they be placed on public trial and accorded all of the legal privileges of due process. The vast contrast between then and now underscores the break with any conception of democratic principles that has occurred within the American ruling elite.

The surviving Nazi leaders were responsible for the deaths, by genocide and war, of tens of millions, yet American officials were scrupulous in demanding that they be captured alive and placed on trial, as they eventually were, at the Nuremberg War Crimes Tribunal in 1945-46. Considerable pains were taken to ensure that the defendants not take their own lives. The US was insistent that the defendants be provided with counsel and access to evidence and that they be accorded the right to cross-examine witnesses.

Dennis Hutchinson of the University of Chicago in a November 18, 2001 Chicago Tribune article cited the comments of Supreme Court Justice Robert H. Jackson, chosen to represent the US in any post-war proceeding, explaining the options he presented to President Harry Truman: “We could execute or otherwise punish them [the Nazi officials] without a hearing. But undiscriminating executions or punishments without definite findings of guilt, fairly arrived at, would ... not set easily on the American conscience or be remembered by our children with pride.” Jackson insisted that the only appropriate “course is to determine the innocence or guilt of the accused after a hearing as dispassionate as the times and horrors we deal with will permit, and upon a record that will leave our reasons and motives clear.”

Jackson feared that summary executions would erode the moral high ground that the victorious powers enjoyed, according to Hutchinson, and that it was necessary as well to document the precise nature of the Nazi crimes for posterity. Jackson commented: “Unless we write the record of this movement with clarity and precision, we cannot blame the future if in days of peace it finds incredible accusatory generalities uttered during the war. We must establish incredible events by credible evidence.”

In a comment directly relevant to the current international situation, both in Iraq and Afghanistan, Jackson noted that the Allied triumph by itself did not provide the victors with the legal sanction to punish German officials, nor did Allied claims and proclamations. The guilt of the Nazi leaders had to be proven in a court of law.

Jackson declared, “The president of the United States has no power to convict anyone. He can only accuse. He cannot arrest in most cases without judicial authority. Therefore, the accusation made carries no weight in an American trial whatsoever. These declarations are an accusation and not a conviction. That requires a judicial finding. Now we could not be parties to setting up a formal judicial body to ratify a political decision to convict. Then judges will have to inquire into the evidence and give an independent decision.”

In his opening statement to the Nuremberg tribunal, Jackson said, “That four great nations, flushed with victory and stung with injury, stay the hand of vengeance and voluntarily submit their captive enemies to the judgment of law is one of the most significant tributes that power has ever paid to reason.”
full: http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/jul2003/iraq-j24.shtml
 
and apparent celibration in the streets at the news.
one discordant note. US forces completely missed a chance to take them alive and thus to quiz them on WMD and human rights violations. Given the US experiance in seige techniques - why not just cordon off the area and starve them out?

could it be they were prefered dead and silent than brought to justice?
 
The Root of Barbarity

In the first Gulf War of the first Bush administration, Robert Gates of the National Security Council, a future director of the CIA, said officials at the White House ''lit a candle every night hoping Saddam Hussein would be killed in a bunker.'' In a ceremony for that war, Defense Secretary Richard Cheney, now the vice president, signed a 2,000-pound bomb, ''To Saddam, with affection.'' Colin Powell, then chairman of the joint chiefs of staff and now the secretary of state, signed the same bomb, ''You didn't move it, so now you lose it.''

Full: http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0725-05.htm
 
Originally posted by consumer135
could it be they were prefered dead and silent than brought to justice?

Once it was confirmed who was actually inside the building, the decision to storm it would have been a political, not military one, therefore you are right in saying that the US preferred them dead, for whatever reason.

john x
 
Soldier Killed as Iraq War of Attrition Grinds On
In a reminder that tensions are not restricted to Saddam's Sunni Muslim heartlands north and west of the capital, troops were forced to fire in the air to disperse a stone-throwing crowd in the Shi'ite holy city of Kerbala to the south on Sunday. Locals accused troops of killing a man on Saturday.
Five dead in 24 hours -- 10 since U.S. troops killed Uday and Qusay on Tuesday -- have brought the number of U.S. troops killed by a largely unseen enemy to 49 since May 1, when President Bush told them major combat was over.
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=3165376
 
Originally posted by consumer135
and apparent celibration in the streets at the news.
one discordant note. US forces completely missed a chance to take them alive and thus to quiz them on WMD and human rights violations. Given the US experiance in seige techniques - why not just cordon off the area and starve them out?

could it be they were prefered dead and silent than brought to justice?

The informer went to the 101st Airborne and let the cat out of the bag.

A relatively small group of soldiers went to the house. One went to the door, and asked the person who opened it, if they could search the house.

The occupant said no. The soldier then left the yard; the soldiers waited until a larger convoy brought about one hundred US soldiers back to the house. When another souldier went toward the house, he was met by gunfire.

We know what happened next.

Now tell me: exactly how were they going to take them alive?
 
"I Did Not Want To Be a Collaborator"

Isam al-Khafaji, a former member of the Iraqi reconstruction council, explains his decision to resign.

Isam al-Khafaji, a former member of the Iraqi reconstruction council, explains his decision to resign

Monday July 28, 2003 (The Guardian) On July 9, with deep sorrow, I submitted my resignation as a member of the Iraqi Reconstruction and Development Council to US deputy secretary of defence Paul Wolfowitz.

I did this with great sadness but, in doing so, I was able to leave Iraq with a clear conscience. If I had stayed any longer, I might not have been able to say that. I feared my role with the reconstruction council was sliding from what I had originally envisioned - working with allies in a democratic fashion - to collaborating with occupying forces.

I had returned to Baghdad in May, a few weeks after the fall of Saddam Hussein, with much hope after 25 years in exile from my country. It was one of the most difficult decisions of my life to accept the invitation of the US government to return with more than 140 other Iraqis as part of this council to help with the postwar reconstruction and rehabilitation of ministries so that Iraq could eventually be turned over to a transitional government.

My understanding of this council, which first reported to retired general Jay Garner, and is now under civil administrator Paul Bremer, was that we would work with Iraq's ministries, not as ministers, but in the background as advisers. Its goal was to restore Iraq's badly damaged infrastructure - the electricity, the hospitals, the water supplies and the transportation routes - at least to its pre-war state so that the country could be turned over to a transitional government.

Though we council members came from all over the world, we are all Iraqis. I accepted the fact that we were a defeated country, and had no problem working with the US. But there seemed to be no interest on the part of the coalition in involving Iraqis as advisers on the future of their nation. Our role was very limited. Even reporters who visited us took note, writing that although the reconstruction council has an office within the presidential palace, there seems to be little done there apart from members reading their email.
full: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4254.htm
 
US troops kill five Iraqis in botched raid

"I am not sure how many cars drove up to the checkpoint but it was at least two. The first car went down the road and they opened fire on it. Then a Toyota carrying a mother, a father, a son and a disabled man went down there and was also shot at. They were all killed. I saw it."

full: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4240.htm

===

Robert Fisk: US troops turn botched Saddam raid into a massacre
Killing up to 11, including two children, their mother and crippled father. At least one civilian car caught fire, cremating its occupants.
full: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4245.htm

===

US warned it faces ' third Gulf war' in Iraq:
"Unless this situation changes soon, and radically, the United States may end up fighting a third Gulf war against the Iraqi people . . . It is far from clear that the United States can win this kind of asymmetric war."

full: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4236.htm

===

Pat Buchanan: Was Poppy Right After All?
The truism stands: the guerrillas win if they do not lose. And they do not lose as long as they keep fighting, dying, killing, and raising the cost of the occupation. British, French, Israelis, and Russians can testify to that.

full: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4238.htm
 
From bigfish' article:

US forces, based on a tip-off from a friend of the Hussein family (in return for a $30 million reward), surrounded a house in Mosul in which Uday, Qusay, his 14-year-old son Mustafa, and one of their supporters had hidden. Some 200 US soldiers backed by helicopter gunships, missiles and mortar shells, attacked the house. After a battle, which lasted six hours, the three men and boy were dead.

I was appalled.



It's a shame that Amr is appalled, but so what. No americans were killed in the mission, because they used overwhelming firepower. This wasn't a duel, nor a joust.

Taking them alive would have meant risking a lot of lives. Why bother?
 
originally posted by Chichenhawk Johnny

Taking them alive would have meant risking a lot of lives. Why bother?
Well one reason to have bothered was the fact that one of the occupants was known to be a 14 year old boy. Obviously killing kids is cool to you.

You make me sick!
 
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