Iranian President suggests 9/11 foul play and cover up

[editor]

exactly, that's why no-one would bat an eyelid.

Right! So the fire drill went off and the people leaving didn't notice the teams of superhuman workmen ready to leap into their offices and fit all the equipment and tons of explosives in a matter of minutes and then - best of all - they completely failed to notice any trace of all these explosives, cabling and wiring that had just been put into their offices?

Brilliant! It just keeps on getting better!

 

[Jazzz]

Seriously - find me something that confirms that the floors that 'blew up' were unoccupied prior to 9/11 and you get some credibility from me, and I don't think that's an unreasonable request.

The whole thing was blown up - it wasn't restricted to a few floors. One assumes the devices must have been installed in the maintenance shafts, where the columns were.

 

[laptop]

surely someone in the 9/11 Truth movement has actually bothered checking

Grammatik reports an error: subject and object of verb "bothered" do not match

 

[zArk]

well, i have posted a few times a link to 911 Eyewitness [an awesome presentation] but now those guys are going one futher;

100% Proof WMD and Thermite took down the Towers
911 Eyewitness Hoboken, which just stunned the audience on a sneak preview in London, shows absolute proof that explosives were used. Several different kinds.

911 Eyewitness has evidence you can take to court. We are ready. Let's go.

Absolute Proof only a click away

This clip has proof fires were out, OUT DAMNIT!
This clip shows thermite CUTTING CHARGES!!! DAMNIT!
This clip shows the explosives on the outside the firemen describe!
This clip shows they used WMD on their own people! DAMNIT!
This clip shows victims who KNEW the fire was out and were waiting for rescue as the evildoers blew them to kingdom come! DAMNIT!

This will be the most controversial release ever.

http://www.911eyewitness.com/truth/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=51

 

[Jazzz]

Right! So the fire drill went off and the people leaving didn't notice the teams of superhuman workmen ready to leap into their offices and fit all the equipment and tons of explosives in a matter of minutes and then - best of all - they completely failed to notice any trace of all these explosives, cabling and wiring that had just been put into their offices?

Brilliant! It just keeps on getting better!

Nothing was in the offices themselves

How would office workers be suspicious of a maintenance crew that was, say, working at night, in maintenace areas?

Your posts certainly aren't getting better.

 

[editor]

The whole thing was blown up - it wasn't restricted to a few floors. One assumes the devices must have been installed in the maintenance shafts, where the columns were.

Ah! So naturally there'll be lots of maintenance workers who noticed this, yes?

 

[editor]

Nothing was in the offices themselves

How would office workers be suspicious of a maintenance crew that was, say, working at night?

Your posts certainly aren't getting better

Did you ever go to the WTC, Jazzz? It was open at night and teams of mysterious workers hauling tons of explosives about would most certainly have been noticed by office managers, door staff, security staff, cleaners, parking attendants, car park staff etc etc.

Still, no doubt the lift attendants will have lots of stories of strange bulky loads going up at night by odd people who had never been seen before, yes?

And naturally the maintenance workers will have a story to say about their routine being interrupted by all these strangers coming in and charging about in their workplace, yes?

And there'll be people who remember thinking that something's not right when they saw tons of strange equipment being dragged about the place and then disappearing from high up inside the WTC, yes?

And obviously, they'll be lining up to tell people their story after the events of 9/11, yes?

Err...no?

 

[Jazzz]

No. You think with all those kind of people knocking around they are going to bat an eyelid about a few more? I refer you to my post #391 where I answered your same point.

 

[editor]

No. You think with all those kind of people knocking around they are going to bat an eyelid about a few more?

Oh dear. This is desperate stuff indeed.

Did you ever go to the WTC, by the way, because you seem pretty clueless about what it was actually like in there.

You seem to be under the impression that people could rock up and roam around with cartloads of explosives wherever they fancied, and were able to just jump in a lift and charge into any office space/restricted area they fancied with no one ever asking them who they were.

 

[Jazzz]

I have heard William Rodriguez, a man infinitely more familiar with the complex than you, explain that it was certainly possible and I have heard him first hand. Again, I refer you to my previous posts on the subject.

 

[axon]

So why did the bombers need the planes? Why not simply rig the WTC with explosives, some to start fires for some nice visible action, and then some more to bring the towers down?

Incidentally, I love the story about WTC7 being demolished. I can just picture the Oval office..

Rummy: It's no good George, both of the twin towers are down, the pentagons a mess, and we downed another plane but the opinion polls show that people still won't accept a war on terror!
Bush: Right, there's only one thing for it, get rid of WTC7, that'll convince the people!

 

[Jazzz]

So why did the bombers need the planes? Why not simply rig the WTC with explosives, some to start fires for some nice visible action, and then some more to bring the towers down?

How do you blame it on Osama? While it is possible to rig the WTC with explosives, you would need to control its security to do so. The time Osama tried it, with a basement bomb, it got nowhere.

But also the psychological effect of 9/11 is so much greater when people become scared of planes, the feeling that the terrorists could strike anywhere, including your defense heartland.

 

[Jazzz]

Incidentally, I love the story about WTC7 being demolished. I can just picture the Oval office..

Rummy: It's no good George, both of the twin towers are down, the pentagons a mess, and we downed another plane but the opinion polls show that people still won't accept a war on terror!
Bush: Right, there's only one thing for it, get rid of WTC7, that'll convince the people!

WTC7 is a 'loose end'. It didn't come down to convince anyone. It came down because that is where it was planned and controlled - demolish the evidence.

You know who was in WTC7? It is some coincidence that this mysteriously collapsed building had tenants including United States Secret Service, the Department of Defense, and CIA

not forgetting this nice feature...

"Rudolph Giuliani opened a $13 million emergency Command Center (pictured) on the 23rd floor of World Trade Center Building 7 in June 1999 in part to respond to and manage terrorist attacks."

'manage terrorist attacks' - they said it.

 

[axon]

How do you blame it on Osama?

Well my first clues would be that he said he did it, he had a habit of bombing US interests, and the government concluded it was him. Now this isn't definitive proof but it's something to start with. What happens when you get a parking ticket? I can just see you argujing in court that it's a state plot involving swapped cars, secret classified missile systems and probably something to do with lizards,

While it is possible to rig the WTC with explosives, you would need to control its security to do so. The time Osama tried it, with a basement bomb, it got nowhere.

Maybe that's why he used planes the second time?

But also the psychological effect of 9/11 is so much greater when people become scared of planes, the feeling that the terrorists could strike anywhere, including your defense heartland.

Maybe that's why Al Qaeda used planes?

 

[editor]

I have heard William Rodriguez, a man infinitely more familiar with the complex than you, explain that it was certainly possible and I have heard him first hand. Again, I refer you to my previous posts on the subject.

Have you ever worked in an office, Jazzz? Did they let people roam around your floor at will, bring tons of mysterious stuff in, install things, wire things up and then leave without an explanation - and do it in such a way that you never thought to bring it up if the place was blown to smithereens later?

Oh, and did you ever visit the WTC? Just as a reference, like.

And who did William Rodriguez work for? On what floor?

And how come no lift staff/office managers/cleaners etc etc etc noticed anything unusual in all this explosive-related activity going on?

 

[editor]

"Rudolph Giuliani opened a $13 million emergency Command Center (pictured) on the 23rd floor of World Trade Center Building 7 in June 1999 in part to respond to and manage terrorist attacks."

'manage terrorist attacks' - they said it.

Right! So you're saying that they managed the attack on themselves from inside the WTC?

Priceless!

 

[nick1181]

I think the sad thing about these conspiracy theories is that they're focusing on the wrong things and in so doing providing smoke screens and destroying the credibility of the questions that actually matter.

And the question that matters is "was 9/11 an inside job".

If you'd like to think it might have been, the first question I'd ask is "what would I do?"

Q1 : Would I shoot a missile at the pentagon and pretend it was a plane?

Answer : Of course I fucking wouldn't because (given the sheer number of probable witnesses) there's virtually no chance that I'd get away with it.

Q2 : Would I blow up the World Trade Centre and pretend it was airoplanes?

Answer : Of course I fucking wouldn't - same reason as above.


Q3 : Would I use explosives as well as airoplanes?

Answer : Why bother? Airoplanes are tradgedy/attrocity enough - planting explosives massively increases the chances of discovery etc, is a hassle and isn't necessary.


I personally have a reasonable amount of sympathy for the idea that this was to some extent an inside job - but I don't know, I don't have proof or even a hell of a lot of evidence - just vague hunches. All this talk about possible annomalies in the physics is really counter productive in my opinion - not because the physics is dodgy - because I/We just don't know, but because the motivation for the specific tactics suggested are too ludicrous.

 

[laptop]

What happens when you get a parking ticket?

 

[zArk]

Well my first clues would be that he said he did it,

ermm actually no he didnt.

"The U.S. government has consistently blamed me for being behind every occasion its enemies attack it. I would like to assure the world that I did not plan the recent attacks, which seems to have been planned by people for personal reasons," bin Laden's statement said. "I have been living in the Islamic emirate of Afghanistan and following its leaders' rules. The current leader does not allow me to exercise such operations," bin Laden said.

plus the F.B.I website claims bin laden is still number1 wanted man-- yet there is no mention that it is in connection with 9/11. takes 5 years to update a website???
last revision november 2001.

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/fugitives/laden.htm

heh!

please post me the quote where Usama admits it. thanks

edit** actually he's not even number1.

 

[Jonti]

I think the sad thing about these conspiracy theories is that they're focusing on the wrong things and in so doing providing smoke screens and destroying the credibility of the questions that actually matter.

And the question that matters is "was 9/11 an inside job".

Yes. Occam's razor and all that. Or to put it in the most careful, crafted legalese

September eleven was not a simple operation. Could it be planned and executed without coordination with intelligence and security services – or their extensive infiltration? Of course this is just an educated guess. Why have the various aspects of the attacks been kept secret? Why are we not told who botched their responsibilities? And, why aren't those responsible and the guilty parties identified and put on trial?

Amazing thread. Truly amazing. I've learned a lot, but, uhh, any chance of getting back on topic?

The quote is from Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's letter btw.

 

[Jazzz]

Have you ever worked in an office, Jazzz? Did they let people roam around your floor at will, bring tons of mysterious stuff in, install things, wire things up and then leave without an explanation - and do it in such a way that you never thought to bring it up if the place was blown to smithereens later?

Oh, and did you ever visit the WTC? Just as a reference, like.

And who did William Rodriguez work for? On what floor?

And how come no lift staff/office managers/cleaners etc etc etc noticed anything unusual in all this explosive-related activity going on?

You go and click the links made for you. If you still don't know who William Rodriguez is, I despair. No wonder you never pick up anything from these threads and post like a rabid dog with alzheimer's. Again, offices are not maintenance shafts.

 

[nick1181]

I've worked in an office.

 

[nick1181]

And if you had a reasonably high up job in IT support, smuggling tons of something into a building would be easy. Just take a large delivery of new computer equipment at about 6pm in the evening.

But as I say, if you're going to fly some airoplanes into the building as well, why bother? It would be a waste of computer equipment.

 

[Bob_the_lost]

What utter shite.

The whole thing was blown up - it wasn't restricted to a few floors. One assumes the devices must have been installed in the maintenance shafts, where the columns were.

Jeesus, what sort of fucking idiot would wire a building up that way? There is absolutely nothing to be gained from setting explosives on every floor. Please refer to the 7/7 thread where i got pissed off with Azrael's dislocation with the practicalities of demolition.

Either you use thermite to melt through the steel supports, or you use cutting charges. Thermite is not used in the military for it, nor is it used in the civilain sector for the simple reason that it's not very efficent. Saying it was used to "weaken" the supports is the act of an idiot, since we know that you only need temperatures around 1000*C to do it there is no reason to use something that will melt through the steel. In fact that'd make the use of thermite rather stupid as you could just use cutting charges. To weaken it all you'd need would be a tank of flamable hydrocarbon or two located next to the support member, like aviation kerosene (better yet if you strip off the insulation first).

Then to claim that the thermite was only used in the maintainace sections (the central core) and yet it managed to make it out the side of the building?

You're off your fucking nut.

 

[zArk]

Either you use thermite to cut supports, or you use cutting charges.

hmm so its one or the other? why not both?
Why not a small atomic explosion + planes [just for the spectacle] + thermate + cutter charges + gravity ?

You believe the official theory -- you and those who believe THAT pile of shit, are off their heads.

 

[Jazzz]

Jeesus, what sort of fucking idiot would wire a building up that way? There is absolutely nothing to be gained from setting explosives on every floor. Please refer to the 7/7 thread where i got pissed off with Azrael's dislocation with the practicalities of demolition.

ok, so you don't need to set them off on every floor if you insist. Makes it easier to demolish.

Either you use thermite to melt through the steel supports, or you use cutting charges. Thermite is not used in the military for it, nor is it used in the civilain sector for the simple reason that it's not very efficent. Saying it was used to "weaken" the supports is the act of an idiot, since we know that you only need temperatures around 1000*C to do it there is no reason to use something that will melt through the steel. In fact that'd make the use of thermite rather stupid as you could just use cutting charges. To weaken it all you'd need would be a tank of flamable hydrocarbon or two located next to the support member, like aviation kerosene (better yet if you strip off the insulation first).

So, how do you think all those central steels were weakened? Some small fires which were nearly out? All the jet fuel on the plane couldn't heat up the steel in one of the towers by more than 27 degrees, if I remember the calculation correctly.

Then to claim that the thermite was only used in the maintainace sections (the central core) and yet it managed to make it out the side of the building?

Well, I said I was speculating. But heat from the central columns would easily be transmitted along the steel to the outside members, wouldn't it?

 

[zArk]

yeah, but dont forget that a thermite or thermate reaction isnt going produce enough energy to eject matter 100m vertically and 60m horizontally.

not to mention thermite isnt going to produce the concret dust particles measuring 30microns/. That would take an astronomical amount of energy, more than the energy produced by the collapse alone, vastly more.

Thats why i say, not one or the other, but all of the mentioned.

 

[Crispy]

ok, so you don't need to set them off on every floor if you insist. Makes it easier to demolish.

So, how do you think all those central steels were weakened? Some small fires which were nearly out? All the jet fuel on the plane couldn't heat up the steel in one of the towers by more than 27 degrees, if I remember the calculation correctly.

Jet fuel just started the fire. Building contents burned long after. If you look at burnt-out steel buildings, you'll see the members are all twisted and bent due to heat-induced weakness.

Well, I said I was speculating. But heat from the central columns would easily be transmitted along the steel to the outside members, wouldn't it?

Enough to melt it?

 

[laptop]

Why not a small atomic explosion

Riiiiiight.

That'd be easy to conceal.

 

[Jazzz]

I don't know crispy: but I stated that was speculation.

But, this is all the wrong way around. We have the molten metal. We know it was there dripping off the tower. We know it was there six weeks later. The official theory simply has no explanation for this.

We must find one. Aside from thermite, we just don't have one.

Did you have a look at the videos I linked to? Or better still have you read Steve Jones' paper?