International Cricket

[littlebabyjesus]

Back to the important stuff, Pak about to wrap up the win. But they've been made to sweat and needed someone to deliver today. Excellent test. Sod the IPL - Dublin was the centre of the cricketing world today. Fantastic advert for Irish cricket in particular and test cricket in general.

 

[Reiabuzz]

Yeah, striding out to bat for your national team at Lord's in front of 30,000 in the most prestigious format by a mile is such a bummer.

You know I love test cricket. But let's be realistic. What do they get per test match? £10k or something?

Tune into Sky Cricket right now. It would be hard to give up the buzz he must be feeling out there. Not to mention the perks.

 

[Reiabuzz]

Back to the important stuff, Pak about to wrap up the win. But they've been made to sweat and needed someone to deliver today. Excellent test. Sod the IPL - Dublin was the centre of the cricketing world today. Fantastic advert for Irish cricket in particular and test cricket in general.

Yeh that's why Sky Cricket switched over to the IPL with Pak still needing 40 odd to win

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Yeh that's why Sky Cricket switched over to the IPL with Pak still needing 40 odd to win

Sky can fuck off. Selling cricket off to them was the most damaging single act carried out in English cricket in the last 20 years. And that's in some pretty stiff competition.

You think anyone will remember whatever match is being played today in the IPL next week, let alone next year or next decade? Ireland's first test will still crop up every now and then in 50 years' time.

Hardly anyone was watching Bob Willis at Headingley in 1981 either at the ground or probably on TV. I was. It was the school holidays and I was glued to it. And that was the day I fell in love with cricket. For a later generation, substitute Andrew Flintoff or similar in 2005. Sky wouldn't understand that. Neither do the people who sold our game out to them.

 

[Reiabuzz]

You think anyone will remember whatever match is being played today in the IPL next week, let alone next year or next decade?

No of course not. But you're not stupid. Clearly the biggest cricket broadcaster saw the Pak/Ire game as a bit of a filler before the big stuff. That's undeniable. There's no point denying what's going on - I was raised on a diet of test cricket and so love the game but watching this right now, well - every single game sold out and viewing figures through the roof - young, tremendously talented players like Archer won't give a shit about walking out to 30,000 at Lords. They'll follow the sun and the money around the world.

 

[Spymaster]

'Excellent running' says cricinfo referring to ul Haq. Not quite like his uncle, then.

I thought it was his dad

 

[ddraig]

so the ECB has paid Glamorgan off to not bid for test matches! on top of Cardiff Council writing off £4.4million
Council will not chase cricket club debt

 

[Spymaster]

so the ECB has paid Glamorgan off to not bid for test matches!

Why don’t the ECB want Glamorgan to host test games?

 

[planetgeli]

Cash for votes. Colin Graves, dodgy as fuck.

Colin Graves, the ECB chairman, is under scrutiny after it emerged that 'compensation' payments could be habitually paid to some Test-hosting clubs in the years they did not stage a match despite the policy having not been discussed at Board level.

Glamorgan reveal £2.5m compensation from ECB for not staging Tests

 

[Spymaster]

Ah ok, so they haven’t “paid them off”, ddraig . Glamorgan decided they wouldn’t hold test matches in order to get compo from the ECB.

 

[Casual Observer]

Ah ok, so they haven’t “paid them off”, ddraig . Glamorgan decided they wouldn’t hold test matches in order to get compo from the ECB.

No, the ECB have paid them off. It's effectively a bribe. Counties with grounds fit to hold test matches don't get compensation for not bidding to stage test matches. Colin Graves said "No payments have been made to counties at all. Full stop”, but the audited accounts for Glamorgan CCC state "Following discussions with the ECB the Club decided not to apply to host Tests during the 2020 to 2024 period in return for a compensation payment of £2.5m". Colin Graves, chairman of the ECB, is clearly not telling the truth.

 

[Spymaster]

No, the ECB have paid them off. It's effectively a bribe.

Why though?

 

[Casual Observer]

Why though?

Good question and one that's difficult to answer succinctly.

In additional to the clubs paying money to the ECB for the right to host international matches, it's not unreasonable to assume the ECB also takes a cut of other match-day revenue (ticket sales, food and booze, corporate hospitality etc.). Perhaps the ECB thought that Cardiff would bid higher than another of the lesser test grounds and would thus legitimately win a better share of international matches but would ultimately provide less total revenue to the ECB. Maybe that's why the ECB subverted their own bidding process in this instance.

There are other reasons why Colin Graves and the ECB may have behaved in the way they have but it's probably unwise to speculate at this stage. What is abundantly clear is that Colin Graves has not been telling the truth.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Good question and one that's difficult to answer succinctly.

In additional to the clubs paying money to the ECB for the right to host international matches, it's not unreasonable to assume the ECB also takes a cut of other match-day revenue (ticket sales, food and booze, corporate hospitality etc.). Perhaps the ECB thought that Cardiff would bid higher than another of the lesser test grounds and would thus legitimately win a better share of international matches but would ultimately provide less total revenue to the ECB. Maybe that's why the ECB subverted their own bidding process in this instance.

There are other reasons why Colin Graves and the ECB may have behaved in the way they have but it's probably unwise to speculate at this stage. What is abundantly clear is that Colin Graves has not been telling the truth.

That's not quite how I understand the system works. My understanding is that the counties pay the ECB and then get to set the ticket prices and keep all the match-day revenue, but also get to risk losing money if sales are poor. That's part of what fucked over Durham, and the reason counties have handed back tests. It's also part of why some tests in the past have been eye-wateringly expensive - Glamorgan's Ashes test being a case in point, where most tickets were £100 plus.

They've switched from an 'internal market' Thatcherite system with sealed bids to fixed prices for test matches, and some counties, notably Warwickshire, have reduced their ticket prices somewhat, but the system remains one in which the counties pay a fixed sum and take on both the chance of making money and the risk of losing it. The likes of Surrey are the biggest winners in this situation - guaranteed big sales due to an accident of geography.

Durham were effectively dismantled for doing exactly what Glam, Hants, Yorks and Warks have also done to pay for test ground improvements. More than that, Durham were instructed to act that way. Yet we're very nearly back where we started - with the six traditional test grounds dominating test matches. Meanwhile, counties that have developed their grounds in a way appropriate to a county ground, who ought to be models for the likes of Glamorgan or Hants - Somerset, for instance - get fuck all recognition for it.

 

[Spymaster]

That's not quite how I understand the system works. My understanding is that the counties pay the ECB and then get to set the ticket prices and keep all the match-day revenue, but also get to risk losing money if sales are poor. That's part of what fucked over Durham, and the reason counties have handed back tests. It's also part of why some tests in the past have been eye-wateringly expensive - Glamorgan's Ashes test being a case in point, where most tickets were £100 plus.

They've switched from an 'internal market' Thatcherite system with sealed bids to fixed prices for test matches, and some counties, notably Warwickshire, have reduced their ticket prices somewhat, but the system remains one in which the counties pay a fixed sum and take on both the chance of making money and the risk of losing it. The likes of Surrey are the biggest winners in this situation - guaranteed big sales due to an accident of geography.

Durham were effectively dismantled for doing exactly what Glam, Hants, Yorks and Warks have also done to pay for test ground improvements. More than that, Durham were instructed to act that way. Yet we're very nearly back where we started - with the six traditional test grounds dominating test matches. Meanwhile, counties that have developed their grounds in a way appropriate to a county ground, who ought to be models for the likes of Glamorgan or Hants - Somerset, for instance - get fuck all recognition for it.

So what have the ECB gained by bunging Glam 2.5mio?

Presumably Graves was subject to some level of oversight and had to say to someone "we should give Glamorgan over two million for not bidding for test matches and here's why..."

What's the 'why'?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

So what have the ECB gained by bunging Glam 2.5mio?

Presumably Graves was subject to some level of oversight and had to say to someone "we should give Glamorgan over two million for not bidding for test matches and here's why..."

What's the 'why'?

I have no idea. But anyone associated with Durham, in particular, must be pretty fucking sick about it.

The only rationale I can think of is that the best way to maximise attendance at test matches is to concentrate matches at the six traditional grounds. Outside of Ashes tests, the three new test grounds don't have a great track record of attendance. The idea of expanding the test ground list has been a failure, basically, so the new test counties are stuck with the cost of maintaining stadiums that are not appropriate to county cricket. It was always a stupid idea (the only reason I can think of for creating seven places that will bid for a maximum of four non-London tests a year was some kind of Thatcherite 'competition') but is even more stupid now that it is intended to cut the number of tests annually from seven to six.

 

[Spymaster]

The benefit to Glamorgan is obvious but I don't see what the ECB (or Graves) get out of it unless something naughty is going on and the whole board is in on it.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

tbh I can't think of any non-corrupt reason for it. There has always been a massive and obvious conflict of interest in Graves' position.

 

[Casual Observer]

That's not quite how I understand the system works. My understanding is that the counties pay the ECB and then get to set the ticket prices and keep all the match-day revenue, but also get to risk losing money if sales are poor."

The Glamorgan bung relates to them agreeing not to bid for test matches on the 2020 - 2024 package. The proposal this time is that the ECB also takes a cut of the match day revenues in addition to the bid fees. That wasn't the case previously.

I was speculating with my previous post and only just found this out myself so not trying to be a smart arse. Penultimate paragraph on this link below for more:

ECB director quits over 'fiasco' under chairman Colin Graves

 

[littlebabyjesus]

The Glamorgan bung relates to them agreeing not to bid for test matches on the 2020 - 2024 package. The proposal this time is that the ECB also takes a cut of the match day revenues in addition to the bid fees. That wasn't the case previously.

I was speculating with my previous post and only just found this out myself so not trying to be a smart arse. Penultimate paragraph on this link below for more:

ECB director quits over 'fiasco' under chairman Colin Graves

Ok, didn't know they'd changed it. Sounds like quite a few people didn't know the details. So Glam get 2.5 million for five years' worth of not hosting a test @ 500,000 a year. The scandal then comes if Glam agreed not to host anything - those payments surely only make any sense if the grounds are actively bidding for as many games as they can get.

There has always been a basic contradiction in the system by which counties pay to create grounds that will stage internationals while the ECB takes on no risks in those developments at all.

 

[Casual Observer]

The scandal then comes if Glam agreed not to host anything - those payments surely only make any sense if the grounds are actively bidding for as many games as they can get.

It's a scandal already. You can't have a bidding process and then secretly pay certain bidders not to bid without other bidders knowing. The article I linked to was from early March and detailed the resignation of Somerset's Andy Nash. Surrey's Richard Thompson also resigned in protest at the bung later in the month. He (Thompson) was an elected member on behalf of the test-hosting counties but I'd be interested to know which other people/counties are on the board and who kept quiet.

Running parallel with this is Colin Graves and the ECB's City Franchise/The Hundred/T16.4 bollocks but that's a whole other kettle of sewage.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Well hopefully this will bring Graves down.

I suspect that the T16.4 idea will be quietly scratched at some point between now and 2020. As an aside, the symbolism of the start date is rather lost! Hopefully we can have more scandals that will put the whole idea of the city franchises back on the table for debate.

 

[planetgeli]

It's not T16.4. It's 15 + 1x10.

Colin Graves (trust) is owed 18-22 million pounds by Yorkshire C.C.C. Speculation has it that they needed, badly, to be an Ashes venue for 2023. Surprise, surprise, they got it. Glamorgan, who may have been aided by the Welsh Assembly in any bid, were not, of course, allowed to bid. Conveniently some suggest.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It's depressing that 'is a total cunt' seems to be the top essential requisite when they choose a chair of the ECB. Who knows what shitstain they will come up with next if Graves does go.

One thing that I am very very tired of is the constant talking down of everything around now. The county championship is shit, two divisions is now suddenly shit, T20 Blast isn't working, there are too many counties, etc etc etc. Never mind the string of onfield successes among the 'small' counties in the last few years, the best grounds in the country for t20 often being at 'small' counties, the string of England players produced by 'small' counties, the overall buoyancy and upward direction of attendance at all forms of the game. And when they bemoan the lack of interest in cricket among the young, there is one overriding reason for that, which is the selling out to Sky. And that's the one thing they will never, ever mention.

 

[Casual Observer]

Colin Graves (trust) is owed 18-22 million pounds by Yorkshire C.C.C.

The Graves Trust is owed c£11m, the rest of the c£22m is owed to the council and HSBC. The club bought the ground from the council 10+ years ago. That and ground development accounts for nearly all of the debt.

EDIT: Apologies to planetgeli. He was right and I was wrong. Looks like the Graves Trust made an additional loan to the club somewhere between 2015 and 2016 to pay off the council part of the debt - presumably around the time when Graves resigned as club chairman to become ECB chairmen.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

The Graves Trust is owed c£11m, the rest of the c£22m is owed to the council and HSBC. The club bought the ground from the council 10+ years ago. That and ground development accounts for nearly all of the debt.

So about three times the level debt Durham got knobbled over (the debt also owed almost entirely due to ground development).

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It's not T16.4. It's 15 + 1x10.
.

Sixteenpointfour16.4

 

[Casual Observer]

It also emerged in the last couple of weeks that the BCCI gives a 20% cut of the contract fees for English IPL players to the ECB while giving nothing to the counties that provide them. It was 10% in previous years but increased to 20% this year. It seems that the counties didn't know anything about this until very recently - they obviously knew they weren't getting anything but didn't know the ECB were getting something. That's nearly half a million that Durham have been denied for Stokes' last two contracts.

 

[planetgeli]

Chaos in the W.Indies v Sri Lanka test. Umpires changed the ball overnight, presumably after suspecting tampering. SL 'fined' 5 penalty runs. Now refusing to take the field for the 3rd day. They've taken the field and gone off again.

Hmm, we've got a controversy to kick off the day. The umpires appear to have taken a decision to change the ball and that hasn't gone down well with the Sri Lankan camp. They haven't come out to take the field and as a result, the match referee has gone to the dressing room to investigate. Lots of animated conversation, the coach Chandika Hathurusingha is especially peeved. The team manager is on the horn, calling someone to settle the argument.The West Indies batsmen are waiting. Aleem Dar and Ian Gould are waiting. But Chandimal is not budging. His team is officially five minutes late. Maybe more. Speculation is that the umpires were not quite happy with the way Sri Lanka were shining the ball last evening.

The umpires were rather keen about checking on the ball during the dying moments of the second day. Visuals of Gould asking to see Dhananjaya de Silva's hands - he was the one shining the ball and he had bandages on. (Loads of players wear those, by the way) Then, a little later, they tested the shape of the ball using those rings, and brought Chandimal into the conversation. Now, it seems they've taken the call to change the ball and that's angered the Sri Lankan team.

9.40 am Umpires Gould and Dar have come off the field. Sri Lanka are holed up in their dressing room, Hathurusingha taking the lead in an argument with the match referee Javagal Srinath. Say it softly - because there is absolutely no confirmation either way - but we may have another ruckus involving a team's management of the red ball on our hands.

news trickling in that we will have play at 9.55 am

10.48am Alright then, we finally are close to a start. The ball will be changed. The batsmen will choose it. And five penalty runs will be awarded to West Indies. Sri Lanka will be contesting the charge, however. The West Indies batsmen, Devon Smith and Shai Hope, walk out.

We're still waiting for the Sri Lankan team to take the field. Javagal Srinath is coming out. The on-field umpires are looking towards the Sri Lankan dressing room. Ok, finally here they are. Chandimal is leading his team out. We are in the process of selecting the ball. Alright, we can finally get down to some action. Lahiru Kumara will begin proceedings on this chaotic third day. The players are beginning to settle down on the field. Oh, hang on, Aleem Dar is having a chat with Dinesh Chandimal. Clearly, Sri Lanka are still very unhappy. Now Ian Gould joins in on the conference. Oh, dear! Seems like there's going to be more discussions and deliberations. They are going off the field. Again! Sri Lanka haven't entirely gone off the field. They're standing by the boundary. Definitely not ready to play yet. The Sri Lankan team manager is directing his troupes to go back to the field. Gurusinha is having a talk with Javagal Srinath and the team is being spoken to by Hathurusingha as well. Gurusinha is on the phone again. We need to come to a pass at some point. This back and forth is doing no one any good.

 

[butchersapron]

Chaos in the W.Indies v Sri Lanka test. Umpires changed the ball overnight, presumably after suspecting tampering. SL 'fined' 5 penalty runs. Now refusing to take the field for the 3rd day. They've taken the field and gone off again.

I've been keeping my eye on this via the cricinfo text updates. Quick reading would suggest a face saving move by WI initially accepted but now rebuffed by SL bowlers/bandaged suspect tamperers.