suprised no one has mentionned france ( and or birmingham) yet .. in france it is clear ( and of course always have been ) how the immigrants have been badly used and abused .. they were the back bone of french industry for years but as they were treated as just labour instead of as humans this revolt was not suprising ..
Immigration .. part of neo liberalism/Thatcherism??
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iROBOT
CURRENTLY RE-BOOTING
Yup yet another post from the thread that'll never die.
Remember my discussion with exoculate and the notion that I was taking "utter tosh" in regards to housing and capacity?
A recap.
My email was as follows.
Alan Benson is the Head of Housing & Homelessness (GLA) He is responsible for future housiing needs in London and his talk was about housing in London future trends to 2010.
Now if he's got it wrong we're all fucked.
Hope this clears up any idea that 1/ I was making it up and 2/ I was talking out of my Robotic ass.
Remember my discussion with exoculate and the notion that I was taking "utter tosh" in regards to housing and capacity?
A recap.
And this from....
my reply
and another reply from same poster
Well I aksed for some information from Elain at The London Housing Federation, the people who co-ordinate housing policy in (er...) London.
My email was as follows.
And the reply I got back was thus: -
Alan Benson is the Head of Housing & Homelessness (GLA) He is responsible for future housiing needs in London and his talk was about housing in London future trends to 2010.
Now if he's got it wrong we're all fucked.
Hope this clears up any idea that 1/ I was making it up and 2/ I was talking out of my Robotic ass.
exosculate
a stagger with a beat
Robot - where is the pertinent information in that link?
iROBOT
CURRENTLY RE-BOOTING
The pertinent information is in the email sent by the person who replyed who recognised the question and confirmed it was Alan Benson who made the statement I refered to
I can send you his powerpoint presentation if thats any help. As you were't at the conference you'll have to take my word for it, however I could contact Benson if you like?
ps...sorry misunderstood question. its a hard site to navigate but look under conferences, The British Library (20th October) and you'll find alan bensons powerpoint.
I can send you his powerpoint presentation if thats any help. As you were't at the conference you'll have to take my word for it, however I could contact Benson if you like?
ps...sorry misunderstood question. its a hard site to navigate but look under conferences, The British Library (20th October) and you'll find alan bensons powerpoint.
exosculate
a stagger with a beat
iROBOT said:
Sorry I still can't find anything in that link.
Ken Livingstone wants to see more and more people in London. Part of his crazy vision is expanding the city to the east. Much of that is on contaminated land,with poor transport links. To me its sounds like a nightmare vision. There are already far too many housing developments built on contaminated land like Beckton and Enfield Island and flood plains.
The answer has to be a regional policy and not inviting all the world to join us in London.
But KL not only wants more jobs and hosuing for london,he doesnt seem to care that London is already far too overcrowded.
The answer has to be a regional policy and not inviting all the world to join us in London.
But KL not only wants more jobs and hosuing for london,he doesnt seem to care that London is already far too overcrowded.
I forgot to mention on this thread that Nelson Mandela and the World Health Organisation have both spoken out against the way the UK has poached Nurses from South Africa and other developing countries.
It really is unforgiveable that people who think of themsleves as Left wing are colluding with policies that take the skilled workers developing countries need most.
It really is unforgiveable that people who think of themsleves as Left wing are colluding with policies that take the skilled workers developing countries need most.
Has "the left" ever said there is no need for a proper regional policy in Britain? No.
Has "the left" ever said that there aren't issues involved in (say) nurses moving from Africa to Europe? No.
More fact twisting bullshit brought to you by t "thoughtcrime" baldwin.
Has "the left" ever said that there aren't issues involved in (say) nurses moving from Africa to Europe? No.
More fact twisting bullshit brought to you by t "thoughtcrime" baldwin.
So, by your reasoning, anybody who leaves a job to go to a better paid one has been poached?tbaldwin said:
iROBOT
CURRENTLY RE-BOOTING
we all know why nurses from poor countries come to the Uk for jobs, but can anyone explain to me why these jobs are not being filled by "natives"?
From what I've been lead to belive it's a relativley well payed job with the benifits of social housing and final salary pension.
So whats up with people why cant the government get people from here?
From what I've been lead to belive it's a relativley well payed job with the benifits of social housing and final salary pension.
So whats up with people why cant the government get people from here?
geeta said:
Don't make me laugh!
tbaldwin's only on here to fight his one man campaign against the "middle class liberal left supremacist left"
The issue has been in the Grauniad loads of times.
It's a classic hand wringing liberal issue, how anyone getting care of an immigrant nurse is somehow to blame for the poverty in Africa that is created by capitalism.
Isambard said:Don't make me laugh!
tbaldwin's only on here to fight his one man campaign against the "middle class liberal left supremacist left"
The issue has been in the Grauniad loads of times.
It's a classic hand wringing liberal issue, how anyone getting care of an immigrant nurse is somehow to blame for the poverty in Africa that is created by capitalism.
sorry but i genuinely think it is racist the way we ( wasps) are happy to have non english people do all the shit work for us while we house them in shit housing .. and all the while hope that sooner or later they will go home ..
no ... all this is CAPITALIST immigration .. lets work toward sustainable employment including the right of people who genuinely want to come and work here on a short term AND/ OR genuinely want to come and live here as a citizen
Isambard said:Don't make me laugh!
tbaldwin's only on here to fight his one man campaign against the "middle class liberal left supremacist left"
The issue has been in the Grauniad loads of times.
It's a classic hand wringing liberal issue, how anyone getting care of an immigrant nurse is somehow to blame for the poverty in Africa that is created by capitalism.
As though i have ever said it is the fault of someone getting care from an immigrant nurse that is to balme for poverty in Africa.
The phrase LIBERAL SUPREMACIST really covers your dishonest line of arguement. You cant face there is anything wrong with your Liberal views on any issue. So you smear and slander anyone who is guilty of going against your orthodox liberal views.
I said this is the type of argument put forward by middle class hand wringing liberals in the Guardia iirc.
Suggestion: Maybe the UK should fund a nursing position in Africa for every nurse that comes to Britain from outside the EU?
It is a fact that Britain has demand for (say) nurses jobs to be filled, we need to think clearly and calmly about how to fill those jobs, not rant against immigration (or immigrants) per se.
Suggestion: Maybe the UK should fund a nursing position in Africa for every nurse that comes to Britain from outside the EU?
It is a fact that Britain has demand for (say) nurses jobs to be filled, we need to think clearly and calmly about how to fill those jobs, not rant against immigration (or immigrants) per se.
So Isamabard find me a quote from the Guardian that blames African poverty on someone getting nursing care from an Immigrant nurse...
I think its you who needs to start thinking calmly and clearly,before coming out with any more of your ridiculous smears.
I think its you who needs to start thinking calmly and clearly,before coming out with any more of your ridiculous smears.
tbaldwin said:
Did I ever claim to quote them directly? No.
It is the KIND of argument that shifts blame onto working class people.
You'll notice I've opposed this kind of thinking generally, while you attack and smear people directly and personally and it seems you're getting a reputation for it.
I'm admitting nothing.
I neve claimed it was a direct quote from the Guardian but the TYPE of argument that the hand wringing middle classes use against workers to make them somehow to blame for the world's problems.
I daresay I could find a similar comment along those line from yourself if I could be arsed (which I am not before you ask). You were theone who many DREARY pages of your "arguments" back said that people were gaining in Britain through cheaper imported workers.
Anyway, back to the topic as opposed to your self-obcession.
I was talking to a n aquaintance the other week (who is an economist by profession) particuarly about Poland and he reminded me of the fact that when Spain and portugal joined the EU there was a "panic" that they were going to "swamp" the UK but that it didn't happen.
I neve claimed it was a direct quote from the Guardian but the TYPE of argument that the hand wringing middle classes use against workers to make them somehow to blame for the world's problems.
I daresay I could find a similar comment along those line from yourself if I could be arsed (which I am not before you ask). You were theone who many DREARY pages of your "arguments" back said that people were gaining in Britain through cheaper imported workers.
Anyway, back to the topic as opposed to your self-obcession.
I was talking to a n aquaintance the other week (who is an economist by profession) particuarly about Poland and he reminded me of the fact that when Spain and portugal joined the EU there was a "panic" that they were going to "swamp" the UK but that it didn't happen.
Isambard said:
The type of arguement handwringing Liberals make... Oh Yeah!
And who has blamed workers on this thread????????
I wonder if your friend has any idea of how many Poles are in London?
Catering and Building workers would probably have a lot more idea. Not to mention Plumbers!
The boyfriend of a mate of mine is Polish and works as a chef. His sister works cash in hand as a care attendant, so I'm aware of the situation thanks.
The was nothing going for them in Poland and jobs here that needed filling (*), of COURSE they were going to move.
(*) We've already covered the phenomena that middle class well to do boys were going into trades as the pay was higher than their traditional careers, becasue demand was higher than supply.
I work in 2 part time catering jobs and I've not heard complaints about immigrants taking the work away.
Yet another example of tbaldwin in utter bullshit shocker!
The was nothing going for them in Poland and jobs here that needed filling (*), of COURSE they were going to move.
(*) We've already covered the phenomena that middle class well to do boys were going into trades as the pay was higher than their traditional careers, becasue demand was higher than supply.
I work in 2 part time catering jobs and I've not heard complaints about immigrants taking the work away.
Yet another example of tbaldwin in utter bullshit shocker!
exosculate
a stagger with a beat
Isambard said:The boyfriend of a mate of mine is Polish and works as a chef. His sister works cash in hand as a care attendant, so I'm aware of the situation thanks.
The was nothing going for them in Poland and jobs here that needed filling (*), of COURSE they were going to move.
(*) We've already covered the phenomena that middle class well to do boys were going into trades as the pay was higher than their traditional careers, becasue demand was higher than supply.
I work in 2 part time catering jobs and I've not heard complaints about immigrants taking the work away.
Yet another example of tbaldwin in utter bullshit shocker!
I have friends on building sites who complain about it all the time. Since you have already declared you are the child of immigrants - you are unlikely to have things said to you anyway.
Isambard said:The boyfriend of a mate of mine is Polish and works as a chef. His sister works cash in hand as a care attendant, so I'm aware of the situation thanks.
The was nothing going for them in Poland and jobs here that needed filling (*), of COURSE they were going to move.
(*) We've already covered the phenomena that middle class well to do boys were going into trades as the pay was higher than their traditional careers, becasue demand was higher than supply.
I work in 2 part time catering jobs and I've not heard complaints about immigrants taking the work away.
Yet another example of tbaldwin in utter bullshit shocker!
The gutter press (the Guardian) yesterday reported that over 290,000 people had come recently from eastern europe into the UK.(The majority from Poland)
These were official figures and are likely to be much much higher in reality.
There are over 4 million people unemployed in the UK.
290 000 new residents is a
0.005%
increase in the UK population.
The most of them are EU citizens and have as much right to live and work in Britain as you do to go on holiday to Spain, buy a German car, eat Italian pesto.
AGAIN, there is no direct correlation between migration and unemployment amongst those already resident.
0.005%
increase in the UK population.
The most of them are EU citizens and have as much right to live and work in Britain as you do to go on holiday to Spain, buy a German car, eat Italian pesto.
AGAIN, there is no direct correlation between migration and unemployment amongst those already resident.
exosculate
a stagger with a beat
Isambard said:
Actually 0.5%, but the reality is probably closer to 1%.
Of course there is correlation - because they drive down wages.
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