Huge reduction in meat-eating ‘essential’ to avoid climate breakdown

[Jeff Robinson]

I really don't think these things are either systemic change from above or collective campaigning or individual action. It has to be all of them. Greater availability of plant based options are only taking off because there is demand. We might only start seeing the repurposing of agriculture away from meat once demand starts to fall. I don't think we should either pretend that this can be solved through guilt tripping people or that everyone should sit back and wait for capitalism to collapse / radically change itself.

I completely agree. The BBC recently interviewed the climate minister Claire Perry about whether policies - or even official advise - should be adopted to address the negative environmental impacts of animal products. She had this to say:

I don't think we should be in the business of prescribing to people how they should run their diets."

When asked whether the Cabinet should set an example by eating less beef (which has most climate impact), she said: "I think you're describing the worst sort of Nanny State ever.

"Who would I be to sit there advising people in the country coming home after a hard day of work to not have steak and chips?… Please…"

Ms Perry refused even to say whether she agreed with scientists' conclusions that meat consumption needed to fall.

Is meat too hot for politicians?

This is the impasse we find ourselves in - governments refusing to show leadership on the issue because they're scared of losing support and individuals not making changes because they believe that the problems should be addressed at the level of government. The outcome is that no meaningful improvements are being made, or are even on the table.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

It’s enough to make you start thinking about anarchism again. It’s been a long time. I’m supposed to be getting more right wing with age

As I get older I get less conservative. You lose the naive googles you used to view the world through (and probably find new ones). Personally, when I see 5% of the population of the State of North Dakota struck off the voting roles with one decision of the Supreme Court (NPR Choice page), I lose a lot of faith in the concept of voting being a way to secure your rights. As far as I'm concerned, why bother with the fuckers at all? That leaves you to seek other alternatives to voting and lobbying. One of those paths is bound to lead to anarchism....

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

I completely agree. The BBC recently interviewed the climate minister Claire Perry about whether policies - or even official advise - should be adopted to address the negative environmental impacts of animal products. She had this to say:

" really don't think these things are either systemic change from above or collective campaigning or individual action. It has to be all of them. Greater availability of plant based options are only taking off because there is demand. We might only start seeing the repurposing of agriculture away from meat once demand starts to fall. I don't think we should either pretend that this can be solved through guilt tripping people or that everyone should sit back and wait for capitalism to collapse / radically change itself."

This is the impasse we find ourselves in - governments refusing to show leadership on the issue because they're scared of losing support and individuals not making changes because they believe that the problems should be addressed at the level of government. The outcome is that no meaningful improvements are being made, or are even on the table.

That's a bit disengenous. A lot of the eating patterns of the general population are the result of food and health policies the government put into place. In the US, at least, they encouraged drinking milk and eating meat. When I was in school, my mother had fits with them because even though I was allergic, they kept insisting that I drink milk. Being a small child I did as I was told. If the government can meddle in encouraging eating those products, they can do the same in discouraging them. They don't have to be draconian about it, just revise the health guidelines to be more scientifically accurate, subsidize fruits and veggies in the schools, develop food plans, etc.

 

[8ball]

Would you eat slaughter-free meat?

I think you can only hack off so much before the thing dies.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

That's a bit disengenous. A lot of the eating patterns of the general population are the result of food and health policies the government put into place. In the US, at least, they encouraged drinking milk and eating meat. When I was in school, my mother had fits with them because even though I was allergic, they kept insisting that I drink milk. Being a small child I did as I was told. If the government can meddle in encouraging eating those products, they can do the same in discouraging them. They don't have to be draconian about it, just revise the health guidelines to be more scientifically accurate, subsidize fruits and veggies in the schools, develop food plans, etc.

It's very disingenuous. Cowardice and unwillingness to confront reality masquerading as principle.

 

[8ball]

It's very disingenuous. Cowardice and unwillingness to confront reality masquerading as principle.

Tory climate minister. Disingenuity, cowardice and an unwillingness to confront reality would have been non-negotiables on the job ad.

 

[SpookyFrank]

That's a bit disengenous. A lot of the eating patterns of the general population are the result of food and health policies the government put into place. In the US, at least, they encouraged drinking milk and eating meat. When I was in school, my mother had fits with them because even though I was allergic, they kept insisting that I drink milk. Being a small child I did as I was told. If the government can meddle in encouraging eating those products, they can do the same in discouraging them. They don't have to be draconian about it, just revise the health guidelines to be more scientifically accurate, subsidize fruits and veggies in the schools, develop food plans, etc.

Meat production is also subsidised here in the UK, so while what this climate minister is saying makes sense at first glance, it bears precious little scrutiny.

 

[NoXion]

I think you can only hack off so much before the thing dies.

I read the link and I'm pretty sure that's not actually how it works in this case.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Would you eat slaughter-free meat?

That's mad and if they can scale it up could be a total winner. Steaks won't be bloody though.

 

[spring-peeper]

If You Want to Save the World, Veganism Isn’t the Only Answer

 

[editor]

If You Want to Save the World, Veganism Isn’t the Only Answer

What a fucking idiotic conclusion to that article.

But if your concerns as a vegan are the environment, animal welfare and your own health, then it’s no longer possible to pretend that these are all met simply by giving up meat and dairy. Counterintuitive as it may seem, adding the occasional organic, pasture-fed steak to your diet could be the right way to square the circle.

Because animals just love to be killed for meat.

 

[Pickman's model]

What a fucking idiotic conclusion to that article.

Because animals just love to be killed for meat.

Wish people would stop saying counterintuitive, perverse is what they mean

 

[8ball]

Wish people would stop saying counterintuitive, perverse is what they mean

Seems like the right word in this case.

 

[yield]

What a fucking idiotic conclusion to that article.

But if your concerns as a vegan are the environment, animal welfare and your own health, then it’s no longer possible to pretend that these are all met simply by giving up meat and dairy. Counterintuitive as it may seem, adding the occasional organic, pasture-fed steak to your diet could be the right way to square the circle.

Because animals just love to be killed for meat.

Not that I'm defending Sir Charles Raymond Burrell, 10th Baronet. Without culling the herbivores the ecotourism wouldn't be sustainable.

Or reintroduce wolves & bears in West Sussex

Dutch rewilding experiment sparks backlash as thousands of animals starve
Fri 27 Apr 2018

It is known as the Dutch Serengeti, a bold project to rewild a vast tract of land east of Amsterdam. But a unique nature reserve where red deer, horses and cattle roam free on low-lying marsh reclaimed from the sea has been savaged by an official report after thousands of animals starved.

In a blow to the rewilding vision of renowned ecologists, a special committee has criticised the authorities for allowing populations of large herbivores to rise unchecked at Oostvaardersplassen, causing trees to die and wild bird populations to decline.

 

[Yossarian]

I thought that story made some interesting points about rebuilding soil - obviously it'd be even better from an animal welfare point of view if the animals were allowed to graze naturally and die naturally, but I'm not sure how many farmers would be willing to forgo income in order to turn their operations into pig and cow sanctuaries.

 

[jusali]

Is this a solution too?

 

[stavros]

I don't think we should be in the business of prescribing to people how they should run their diets.

Says Claire Perry, which rather renders the dietary work of clinicians and Public Health England somewhat redundant. It has some similarities to Gove's experts quote.

 

[stavros]

Moving on from lambasting ministers, what public policies would be, ahem, palatable to the electorate and could see the light of day? Addressing the proliferation of fast food outlets and their dependence on processed red meat could be worth looking at, with the DCLG* guiding local planning authorities.

*I know the name's changed, but I forget the acronym.

 

[Pickman's model]

Moving on from lambasting ministers, what public policies would be, ahem, palatable to the electorate and could see the light of day? Addressing the proliferation of fast food outlets and their dependence on processed red meat could be worth looking at, with the DCLG* guiding local planning authorities.

*I know the name's changed, but I forget the acronym.

I think the years of silence answer your question

 

[stavros]

I think the years of silence answer your question

We've all had time to, er, ruminate on the question, so maybe people have some new suggestions.

I have noticed a slightly higher awareness of the meat-climate correlation from more people since I posted that, although that's only anecdotal. I don't suppose the concept has gained traction with the population at large though.