How much evidence is there of long term high level UK paedophile ring?

[Bernie Gunther]

No. Before the Blair years. Well before.

Do you have a link?

I couldn't see any clear reference to when the child abuse by a current Labour peer was meant to have happened in the Daily Mail article I read.

 

[elbows]

Just to reiterate something about the "Dickens Dossier" that Leon Brittan seems to have mislaid.

Dickens was a key figure in the 'Satanic Panics' see e.g. http://www.paganlibrary.com/witch_hunting/dickens_child_sex_witch-hunt.php

Based on his witch-hunting activities contemporary with that dossier, I would be extremely sceptical about any allegations he was making.

I expect that he simply compiled material that was provided to him by others, including letters by members of the public. I wouldn't place much faith in his ability to sensibly edit the stuff and weed out the silly shit, but that doesn't really matter. From what the press have said about the dossier(s), I would expect that quite a lot of it relates to stuff that is discussed elsewhere on the net.

As for more detail on what was in it, this is a fair start:

http://theneedleblog.wordpress.com/2014/07/03/what-was-in-geoffrey-dickens-dossier/

 

[Bernie Gunther]

I expect that he simply compiled material that was provided to him by others, including letters by members of the public. I wouldn't place much faith in his ability to sensibly edit the stuff and weed out the silly shit, but that doesn't really matter. From what the press have said about the dossier(s), I would expect that quite a lot of it relates to stuff that is discussed elsewhere on the net.

As for more detail on what was in it, this is a fair start:

http://theneedleblog.wordpress.com/2014/07/03/what-was-in-geoffrey-dickens-dossier/

Sure, but they've taken (one might say cherry-picked) a sane-sounding quote there.

Here are some other 1980's Dickens quotes:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...zhAAAAAIBAJ&sjid=N1kMAAAAIBAJ&pg=1963,3804610

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/102072811

edited to add:

Now I'm not saying that his dossier can't have contained stuff with a basis in evidence, but his track record suggests that he was willing to uncritically promote utterly batshit fundie propaganda about satanic child abuse that wrecked the lives of thousands of innocent people while having almost no basis in reality. So as much as I'd like to see a bunch of politicians, especially Thatcherite ones, locked up as baby-rapers, I remain extremely skeptical of anything Dickens had to say.

 

[torquemad]

Do you have a link?

I couldn't see any clear reference to when the child abuse by a current Labour peer was meant to have happened in the Daily Mail article I read.

There was no link. I know because the identity because I was told by someone, then in care, who was abused by this person as a child. It has been common knowledge in certain quarters fro some years.

 

[Sirena]

Just to reiterate something about the "Dickens Dossier" that Leon Brittan seems to have mislaid.

Dickens was a key figure in the 'Satanic Panics' see e.g. http://barthsnotes.com/2014/07/02/geoffrey-dickens-child-abuse-claims-and-satanic-panic/

Based on his witch-hunting activities contemporary with that dossier, I would be extremely sceptical about any allegations he was making.

There may be some real evidence but based on the rest of what he was up to at the time, there's also likely to be a lot "Satan ate my baby" stuff made up by fundie headcases.

I remember him saying he had a 'dossier' about Satanic Ritual Child Abuse and wondered what had happened to it... Here's a link to his involvement with the persecution of the Sorceror's Apprentice shop in Leeds
http://www.saff.ukhq.co.uk/cookdate.htm

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Yep, he was also enthusiastically promoting Audrey Harper's 'Satan Ate My Baby' stories.

Geoffrey Dickens latched on to Audrey Harper immediately, supporting her and helping her spread the news that, to her knowledge, English Satanists were still sacrificing children. Dickens was one of two Tory MPs (the other being DavidWilshire) engaged in anti-occult agitation during the late ’80s. Wilshire actually called for witchcraft laws to be re-instated, and Dickens campaigned for occult literature to be restricted or banned. Complaining that “perverted cults which worship the devil can freely publish guides on how to dabble in the occult,” he opined, “The Home Office must act.”

He worked closely with Childwatch, a Hull-based organization that used every opportunity to warn the public about Satanic ritual abuse in England. Its founder, Diane Core, declared that up to 4000 English children were being sacrificed by Satanists annually. <snip>

In spite of a years-long crusade against Satanic crime, no evidence of the mass murder of children by Satanists ever surfaced. The entire campaign was based on anecdotes, recovered memories, and uncorroborated stories from “former Satanists” and “ritual abuse survivors”.

https://swallowingthecamel.wordpress.com/2011/07/

 

[happie chappie]

Might be a load of shit but I'll post it anyway.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/487044/Parliamentarians-as-suspected-paedophiles-MP-pressured-not-to-out

I think it's true - corroborated by the Daily Telegraph:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...nge-Leon-Brittan-over-paedophile-dossier.html

Also confirmed by Danzuck himself on Radio 4 this lunchtime.

If I heard correctly, in the radio interview he says that he was thinking of naming 2 people, one of whom may or may not have been Brittan, at the hearing under Parliamentary Privilege but decided not to do so.

By the way, Keith Vaz refused to be interviewed on the programme but issued a statement along the same lines as Cameron, Gove etc: "nothing should be done to prejudice a police inquiry".

Interesting that they are all using exactly the same line.

 

[Sirena]

Yep, he was also enthusiastically promoting Audrey Harper's 'Satan Ate My Baby' stories.

I was on a Robert Kilroy-Silk programme in 1998 with Audrey Harper..

 

[happie chappie]

Do you have a link?

I couldn't see any clear reference to when the child abuse by a current Labour peer was meant to have happened in the Daily Mail article I read.

It's been widely reported that a serving Labour peer has had his premises searched in relation to very serious allegations of historic child abuse.

It may, or may not, be the person referred to in the Mail article although he, as yet, has not been interviewed or arrested.

Neither has the peer referred to in the Mail.

If it is the same person, it's rather old news.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Just to reiterate something about the "Dickens Dossier" that Leon Brittan seems to have mislaid.

Dickens was a key figure in the 'Satanic Panics' see e.g. http://barthsnotes.com/2014/07/02/geoffrey-dickens-child-abuse-claims-and-satanic-panic/

Based on his witch-hunting activities contemporary with that dossier, I would be extremely sceptical about any allegations he was making.

There may be some real evidence but based on the rest of what he was up to at the time, there's also likely to be a lot "Satan ate my baby" stuff made up by fundie headcases.

edited to provide a more concise link.

While it may be wise to be sceptical about allegations made by GD - we don't, of course, know the source of the allegations presented to him.

It is certainly healthy to be skeptical about how and why the dossier would go go walkies and why the person who supplied it appears to have been professionally burgled and even on a hitman list. Wether or not you trust GD doesn't really alter the fact that this stinks to the heavens.

Apols if link or info has been posted before.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mp-who-handed-vip-paedophile-3816675

 

[happie chappie]

Here is Chris Faye being far more detailed and sensible about the files, explaining what they were and were not, from about a year ago:

http://theneedleblog.wordpress.com/2013/08/23/elm-guest-house-mary-moss-files/

(Mary Moss is the NAYPIC woman I mentioned in my previous post.)

Thanks Elbows. You may not know the answer to this but in the above Needleblog article, in the 4th para Faye refers to a handwritten list he made of people who stayed at the Elm Guest House.

Is this the same list as that photographed and placed on the scriptonitedaily site?

 

[elbows]

Thats the entire point of me posting that stuff today in light of recent posts by others, yes.

 

[elbows]

If it is the same person, it's rather old news.

Its probably a different case, but not quite enough detail to be absolutely certain. Still, I don't think the number of victims mentioned by the mail matches the known historical allegations and fresh police investigation you refer to.

 

[laptop]

There may be some real evidence but based on the rest of what he was up to at the time, there's also likely to be a lot "Satan ate my baby" stuff made up by fundie headcases.

Aye: to be fair to the civil servants, I was thinking that if I'd had a Dickens Dossier I'd likely have lost it too.

 

[DotCommunist]

Interesting that they are all using exactly the same line.

because they've all been briefed

 

[laptop]

Now Tebbit's on the case:

The former Conservative cabinet minister Lord Tebbit has said he believes there "may well" have been a political cover-up over child abuse in the 1980s.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jul/06/child-abuse-coverup-1980s-lord-tebbit

Can't remember whether he has form on the issue...

And:

Calls for 'overarching, Hillsborough-style' inquiry as it emerges that a total of 114 documents are missing from official records

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jul/05/lost-child-abuse-files-home-office

E2A: whoops, slow this morning afternoon

 

[Barking_Mad]

The link that treelover posted -

http://www.scriptonitedaily.com/201...nised-paedophile-network-leads-back-to-no-10/

is pretty strong stuff. Is scriptonite daily kosher? Im not getting any tinfoil hat/"it was the joos!" type vibes but want to be sure before i facebook it.

The claims made by Chris Faye AFAIK are pretty solid. He has first hand knowledge about some of the events.

It's worth watching the Elm Tree Nightmare video in the link, especially towards the end where he confirms that names were known by police, media and government when the inquest was bring held into Carol Kasir's death. According to Faye he came out of court to be ignored by UK media and on asking a BBC journo why was told "D-Notice".

 

[Barking_Mad]

Should also mention that Kasir's death is suspicious, also talked about in the video. The inquest into her death was in 1990, so the information has been known about for a long time. If Faye is correct, we could have been having this conversation 24 years ago.

 

[Barking_Mad]

The other man in the video, and Bill Maloney, doesn't do the piece any favours. I can understand has anger given his apparent background but he ventures a little into Mr Angry mode which for your casual observer is probably a bit off putting. He interrupted a Lib Dem press piece (and bbc journo on the spot) outside the Houses of Parliament asking a sheepish Nick Clegg what he knew about Paedophile networks in the government. It's on YouTube

 

[happie chappie]

Thats the entire point of me posting that stuff today in light of recent posts by others, yes.

Thanks Elbows - that makes things a bit clearer.

Danzcuk said today that things are now coming to head.

David Mellor has just been wheeled out to discredit Dickens, saying he was essentially a self-publicist.

How do you see things panning out over the next few days and weeks with regard to the Dickens files, the allegations contained in them, and Brittan's role in all this?

 

[elbows]

How do you see things panning out over the next few days and weeks with regard to the Dickens files, the allegations contained in them, and Brittan's role in all this?

Dunno really. The press clearly have an appetite for more, but not sure how far they'll go. There is quite a gap between details that Exaro reported months ago and events of the last week, the mainstream media haven't merged it all together yet and its not clear if they will at this point. And its not clear that there is much more to give the specific 'Dickens Dossier' part of the story more legs, but thats not a bad thing since its been more of a way to keep the story alive in the media without libel issues, and put pressure on the politicians, than the central and most important thing when it comes to actually bringing about justice.

 

[elbows]

Or to put it another way, I'm most interested in prosecutions, and there hasn't been any good news in that regard for ages now. The political fallout and prospect of inquiries interests me too, but not as much as people actually being brought to justice.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Mark Watts of Exaro

@MarkWatts_1 But both the immediate devs, and the additional story to come, will make #CSAinquiry “irresistible”, to quote @ZacGoldsmith.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Mark Watts of Exaro

@MarkWatts_1 But both the immediate devs, and the additional story to come, will make #CSAinquiry “irresistible”, to quote @ZacGoldsmith.

I wonder if he meant ...

Irresistible in pursuit of justice?

Or irresistible as a lightning-rod for growing public distrust and loathing of the political class?

 

[Mr.Bishie]

Yeah, I need that one explaining!

 

[nino_savatte]

David Mellor has just been wheeled out to discredit Dickens, saying he was essentially a self-publicist.

Lol! Like Mellor isn't a self-publicist himself.

 

[farmerbarleymow]

Lol! Like Mellor isn't a self-publicist himself.

He always makes my skin crawl, and the thought of him in that football top shagging. Eurgh.

 

[Favelado]

He always makes my skin crawl, and the thought of him in that football top shagging. Eurgh.

Well, this is a serious subject but if I can be forgiven a throwaway comment - what does his come-face look like if the normal one is that ugly?

 

[Quartz]

A Tory MP says he was warned off:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...nge-Leon-Brittan-over-paedophile-dossier.html

 

[laptop]

If it is the same person, it's rather old news.

Entire content of story: "Themmuns were at it too. Allegedly."