nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Indeed, no one except those with fat wallets can afford a defamation suit. It's one of the things that makes this country so rotten.
How much evidence is there of long term high level UK paedophile ring?
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Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
i wouldn't be surprised if mcalpine could, using his auld appointment diaries, give a fairly detailed account of his movements for the past 30 years or more.
Buckaroo
Donkey piss and tractors
He has a thing about conspiracy theories but there is a difference between a conspiracy of people and a conspiracy of events, he is dancing on the head of a pin.
Buckaroo
Donkey piss and tractors
Channel four news now...asking the same questionStrange indeed
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
I didn't see it yesterday, but tonight's felt a bit like they were almost trying to reset a campaign, after acknowledging a setback (rather than straight news reporting). Crick looked a bit sheepish, even if he did try and blame the beeb.
I hate to be doing some kind of 'PR analysis' on how this is playing out, but getting McAlpine wrong looks like it could damage the whole process of getting justice. Meesshams gone through hell and it's hardly his fault - no doubt he correctly identified the right person from their photo. However it did feel like a deflating moment. Can almost imagine lawyers going on about 'faulty memories', length of time etc.
elbows
Well-Known Member
Crick had no reason to be sheepish, he correctly anticipated how this might unfold from the start.
Although when I say start, thats not quite true. The start was many years ago, the allegations have been on the net for many years as well, what changed was the level of attention to them.
Although when I say start, thats not quite true. The start was many years ago, the allegations have been on the net for many years as well, what changed was the level of attention to them.
elbows
Well-Known Member
And the same goes for the suggestions of gross inaccuracy regarding one individual in particular. These are as old as the original story, and people on this thread did a great job of covering this stuff well before the latest shitstorm. OK maybe great is overdoing it, but the problems have been apparent for years and its real bad that sections of the media didnt pay more attention to this before they rested so much of the story on that pillar.
Thats part of the reason people like me may be staring in disbelief at posts here over the last 20 hours.
Thats part of the reason people like me may be staring in disbelief at posts here over the last 20 hours.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
perhaps, but (once again) THIS IS URBAN
you don't fucking come here to read things any old fuckwit might believe, like some virgin giving birth to the son of god 2000 years ago.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Don't know if that's aimed at me? Anyway, I obviously don't know anything about the guilt of the respective McAlpines. I was just making a comment on how whether this will get a sense of momentum - and ultimately whether there's a chance of any child rapists doing time.Equally, I'm not sure which posts you are staring in disbelief at? I'm more than happy to say you and others have done a lot of work on it and made links. My view is that at the moment it's perched halfway between being an internet process involving the committed and a public issue. I just hope there's a way of it ultimately getting some of the cunts.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
imo the mcalpines should be condemned for their famously shit health and safety at work, as immortalised in the classick ballad, 'mcalpine's fusiliers'
after they've been fucked over for that, then let's turn to the more recent allegations.
after they've been fucked over for that, then let's turn to the more recent allegations.
elbows
Well-Known Member
Equally, I'm not sure which posts you are staring in disbelief at? I'm more than happy to say you and others have done a lot of work on it and made links. My view is that at the moment it's perched halfway between being an internet process involving the committed and a public issue. I just hope there's a way of it ultimately getting some of the cunts.
No it wasnt aimed at you specifically, and I wont be going back to see if I can make any of your posts fit my complaint.
My point includes that which Pickmans Model brought up, I've been using u75 as a shelter from the worst the internet has to offer, and whilst I expect this to slip quite frequently, I am used to numerous people quickly neutralising the wibblier stuff. So once the Guardian published their story last night, I was slightly shocked that this drove many people here at the time further down a path which I dont believe does justice to the wider issues. It really doesnt matter in the grand scheme of things, its just a longwinded version of a facepalm or 20 on my part, and hopefully things will gradually return to a sounder footing.
framed
Leave it!
Elbows, you've been pretty much on the ball with your observations on this issue throughout. I withdraw those earlier comments I made about you trying to control the parameters of this discussion.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Buckaroo
Donkey piss and tractors
Lawyers must be chuffed, it will go on for years and by discrediting some of the evidence the victims will be victims again and some people will be brought to justice of a kind and some won't. Abuse, Rigts, Sex, Human Nature, Business, Violence, Class, Power, Freedom and stuff...
elbows
Well-Known Member
Thanks. But all credit to those who placed the useful links in front of me, its not like much of my opinion stemmed from my own research. And Im sure I went wrong on this thread a number of times.
Anyways I've been lucky enough to have the luxury of spending vast amounts of time learning about all sorts of issues that we discuss here, and I dont expect everyone else to have as much spare time or be as geeky as me.
I regret that one of the downsides of having loads of time to learn about stuff, and the ability to drone on and on about my opinions, is that I might sometimes sound like I know what I am talking about. But I want to be challenged by people, I dont really want people to take my word for it, and I think you were right when you pointed out that the way I talk about stuff may give the impression of wanting to narrow the scope of discussion. I can be rather impatient when people arent in sync with the stage I think we've reached at a particular moment, and thats partly because I want to feel like I am sharing a voyage of understanding and discovery with people, in part because in real life I have found myself in something of a pit of isolation.
God what a load of navel gazing bollocks. In real life I'm something of a wisecracking goofball whose routine failings cause me to poke fun at myself, but I dont think I've ever figured out how to do this in print properly.
And now back to the advertised program. Channel 4 was pretty darn good again tonight, not too many moments where my blood boils which is probably all I can ask for. Unlike the BBC.
Buckaroo
Donkey piss and tractors
Whoever imagined that a fight against paedophile rings that reach into the highest echelons would be clean? Manipulation, dirty tricks, concealment, smears, distraction, misdirection - all to be expected really - they didn't get where they are nor stay protected and hidden without many people in positions of power and influence protecting them by foul means and fouler.
Back to Tom Watson's statement which was drowned out by the Newsnight piece. Where are the programmes and articles revisiting and examining the Righton case and the subsequent outing of Morrison?
Now this: North Wales child abuse inquiry pulls in police specialists from across UK | Society | The Guardian Why not just publish the Jillings report and read the statements that the welsh council worker has on her kitchen table!
Back to Tom Watson's statement which was drowned out by the Newsnight piece. Where are the programmes and articles revisiting and examining the Righton case and the subsequent outing of Morrison?
Now this: North Wales child abuse inquiry pulls in police specialists from across UK | Society | The Guardian Why not just publish the Jillings report and read the statements that the welsh council worker has on her kitchen table!
elbows
Well-Known Member
Some talking heads in the media have been using the Messham mess to suggest that Teresa May announced new inquiries prematurely, insinuating that there was no need for the 'abuse beyond the childrens home' stuff to be explored again. Peter Morrison alone is reason why this is a disgraceful concept, let alone what else may yet be lurking under rocks. Hell I dont even care if no politicians were involved, the police and other public officials are just as important a part of the establishment.
Buckaroo
Donkey piss and tractors
Too true. It's all very thick of it.
Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
Yeah - the mac alpine fuck up and the Phillip Schofield list slip have been siezed on with lighting speed and great enthusiasm by many parts of the political/media establishment railing agasint internet driven witch hunts- after several days of deafening silence.
The peter morrison revelation is being completely ignored and the main thrust of the story is being discreditied - even though there is a significent amount of compellnig evidence.
The peter morrison revelation is being completely ignored and the main thrust of the story is being discreditied - even though there is a significent amount of compellnig evidence.
savoloysam
Pigman's pigman's ha ha charade you are..
^Just what I was thinking. Then again need they have worried? Nobody I've spoken to this week has talked about any of this even when I started talking about it.
My guess is even if there is/was a high profile organised ring most people couldn't care less, not unless it's their children that suffering at the hands of it that is
My guess is even if there is/was a high profile organised ring most people couldn't care less, not unless it's their children that suffering at the hands of it that is
savoloysam
Pigman's pigman's ha ha charade you are..
Camer face seems be coming in his pants at the latest turns in the story. I guess there's no bigger fear than fear of the truth eh David?
Buckaroo
Donkey piss and tractors
Sad but true.^Just what I was thinking. Then again need they have worried? Nobody I've spoken to this week has talked about any of this even when I started talking about it.
My guess is even if there is/was a high profile organised ring most people couldn't care less, not unless it's their children that suffering at the hands of it that is
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Just saw him on the BBC news - very different demeanour today.
Vintage Paw
dead stare and computer glare
Seen Newsnight?
What clusterfuck is this?
The news isn't Schofield or Watson or Newsnight or people talking on the internet; the news is why children have had their complaints of abuse ignored, and are still having them ignored. The news is if, how, why and by whom investigations into these alleged crimes have been circumscribed. The news is what kind of power circulates in society in order to protect certain people no matter their crime.
This is nothing but distraction.
I felt like what happened yesterday with Schofield and C4 News was something of a tipping point, or at least it represented a very important moment where the power to question was put in the hands of regular people instead of just the powerful. Well it seems it was a very important moment, but for all the wrong reasons. It's been jumped upon by those it suits, so that they can regain control of the terms of debate, and start putting the media and the internet and the free flow of information on trial, instead of the people who will continue to exert their tight control on that information.
"Silly people, down there flapping around gossiping on the internet; we important people know best, your moral judgements are flawed, stop talking about this, let us handle it in our own way, don't listen to the media...trust the power."
What clusterfuck is this?
The news isn't Schofield or Watson or Newsnight or people talking on the internet; the news is why children have had their complaints of abuse ignored, and are still having them ignored. The news is if, how, why and by whom investigations into these alleged crimes have been circumscribed. The news is what kind of power circulates in society in order to protect certain people no matter their crime.
This is nothing but distraction.
I felt like what happened yesterday with Schofield and C4 News was something of a tipping point, or at least it represented a very important moment where the power to question was put in the hands of regular people instead of just the powerful. Well it seems it was a very important moment, but for all the wrong reasons. It's been jumped upon by those it suits, so that they can regain control of the terms of debate, and start putting the media and the internet and the free flow of information on trial, instead of the people who will continue to exert their tight control on that information.
"Silly people, down there flapping around gossiping on the internet; we important people know best, your moral judgements are flawed, stop talking about this, let us handle it in our own way, don't listen to the media...trust the power."
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