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How much evidence is there of long term high level UK paedophile ring?

when I saw that Guardian headline last night:
Lord McAlpine: abuse allegations 'wholly false and seriously defamatory'
after all the "noone dares mention the Tory Toff's name stuff", I couldn't help recalling the immortal Dad's Army line " Don't tell him Pike !" Innocent or not, he'll never get rid of the stain.. poor Tory bastard . What goes around comes around. :D

One additional major benefit of the current massive re-examination/exposure of sundry establishment child abuse coverups is that everyone in the UK has been forcibly reminded , after all the racist mass media nonsense around the Rochdale "grooming" scandal , which slimely tried to suggest that child abuse is a particularly "Muslim problem", that child abuse is as "British" as Yorkshire pudding. Some of the posters on Urban who have also slimely fallen into this demonisation of the entire Muslim community because of the sins of a few criminals, need to recognise that basic fact too. And be embarrassed and ashamed.
 
Prole said:
There is still the aide to an ex-PM that is linked to the Righton evidence file and isn't Morrison. To start downplaying this is to ignore the fact that at the heart of the most vicious right-wing government were (at least) Morrison and Savile both of whom were protected by the establishment. Rather than Webster, who was some distance from all of this, I prefer the analysis of EIleen Fairweather and Liz Davies who are both closely linked to the victims and the evidence and who say this investigation hasn't even scraped the surface and for the victims there has been precious little justice.
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In my experience, the best way to treat stuff like this isn't to favour some analysis over others because of where it comes from, but to read all of it, and see which analyses best fit with the overall picture. That does, incidentally, point toward the likes of Davies and Fairweather, mostly because they don't rule out even the more bizarre claims (whereas the right-wing media have historically acted on the principle that "bizarre claims aren't true unless we make them"), although I'm a bit alarmed at Davies having shared a platform with Valerie Sinason, who I wouldn't want within a hundred miles of an investigation about child abuse, given her history.
 
The Guardian article by David Leigh et al seems to be top-notch journalism and Alistair McAlpine is totally in the clear.

One of the people quoted in the Guardian is Keith Gregory, an ex care home resident and now a Plaid Cymru councillor in Wrexham. Earlier this year he was reported as accusing some Labour goons, including Malcolm King, of intimidating him

http://wrecsamplaid.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/labours-politics-of-intimidation.html

Malcom King has long been prominent in Labour circles in north Wales and appears in Richard Webster's book. It would be interesting to know if there any links between him, Messham & Watson.

And Radio 4 Today this morning was brilliant. Firstly John Humphreys showed that Yvette Cooper had nothing useful to say on the subject and then David Aaronovitch suggested that Watson should read The Crucible.

The most significant thing to be published this week about children in care is probably this report

http://www.parliament.uk/business/c...on-committee/news/substantive-children-first/

but because of the witch hunt we haven't heard much about it. Fortrunately not all MPs are like Watson, it would probably be too much like hard work for him to take an interest in it
 
So besides this guy, how about the other 4 on the list? Cant be arsed reading the thread but have they been named? It's all over the web so why not.
 
It's definitely time to pause for breath. the guardian piece carries weight given Leigh seems a proper journalist, albeit some of his points (eg both macalpines would have fancy cars) are weak.

The sudden backlash against Watson and Schofield et al is well over the top though. Neither named names in public domain. Both simply raised allegations directly with the PM. As they should, its part of their job.

Two weeks on from Savile the people who asked how could it happen are answering their own question with their actions.

Unreasonably shutting down non defamatory discussion and silencing/ sneering at those asking questions is the responce that prevents people coming forward in the first place.
 
McAlpine family are/were extremely powerful and close to the Tories - an FT report has this:
The extent of the family’s influence over Mrs Thatcher’s Tory party, to which he was a substantial donor, is clear in the perhaps apocryphal but certainly plausible story that when there was a clash between one of the legendary McAlpine parties and a cabinet meeting, the cabinet was cancelled.
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so we can expect them to protect their own.
Unfortunately for many of the victims from the 1970/80s the investigations didn't start until the 1990s - Alfred James (Jimmie) McAlpine died in 1991. Three victims named McAlpine (one disappeared, one dead and Messham) in their police statements. As Messham was in care 77 - 79, it would be easy enough to revisit those statements to ascertain whether the man he (or one of the others) identified was in his late 60s (Jimmie was born 1908) or mid-30s (Alistair b.1942).
 
Bedgewick3 said:
The Guardian article by David Leigh et al seems to be top-notch journalism and Alistair McAlpine is totally in the clear.
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Not sure I'd ever accuse Leigh of "top-notch journalism", but the article does at least make its' case clearly.

One of the people quoted in the Guardian is Keith Gregory, an ex care home resident and now a Plaid Cymru councillor in Wrexham. Earlier this year he was reported as accusing some Labour goons, including Malcolm King, of intimidating him

http://wrecsamplaid.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/labours-politics-of-intimidation.html

Malcom King has long been prominent in Labour circles in north Wales and appears in Richard Webster's book. It would be interesting to know if there any links between him, Messham & Watson.
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To be fair, local politics in Wales has always been a shit-pit of intimidation, corruption and fiefdoms carved out and clung bloodily to by Labour.
As for Webster's book, it's interesting, but has to be read with knowledge of Webster's bias to the fore.

And Radio 4 Today this morning was brilliant. Firstly John Humphreys showed that Yvette Cooper had nothing useful to say on the subject and then David Aaronovitch suggested that Watson should read The Crucible.

The most significant thing to be published this week about children in care is probably this report

http://www.parliament.uk/business/c...on-committee/news/substantive-children-first/

but because of the witch hunt we haven't heard much about it. Fortrunately not all MPs are like Watson, it would probably be too much like hard work for him to take an interest in it
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Well, Watson did vote for social services responsibilities to be extended beyond the age of 16 when Labour were in power, so I doubt he's unaware, ut it's one of those problems that's developed out of a much greater problem - the shift of social services away from direct provision to service commissioning - that removes money through extra bureaucracy, management and managerialist practices that could otherwise usefully be used to provide much closer scrutiny of and communication with their older client base.

There's somewhat of a "witchhunt" bandwagon starting to roll with reference to paedogeddon, with, in some quarters, the seeming intent of shutting down the wider debate. Cameron's "gays" comment yesterday is of a piece with this - we mustn't speak about it in case some people get hurt. That's a noble sentiment, except for a small minority, people are quite "at home" with queers nowadays. Even 20 years ago, when the media were trying to out Portillo and Lilley, and had outed a couple of Parliamentary gays, the public weren't particularly-bothered. If debate is shut down along one avenue, that sets a precedent, and that precedent would be/will be exploited to the full by the Establishment in order to attempt to achieve some form of new status quo where things can continue as they were.
 
Liz Davies Child protection guidance is under threat | Social care network | guardian.co.uk

The revised version has removed all reference to the investigation of organised or institutional abuse.

In the absence of comprehensive national guidance, each local safeguarding children board will have to invent their own which will lead to chaotic work across authority boundaries. This proposal basically takes some of us back to the 70s before the first Working Together was published and when we remember the difficulties investigating networks of abuse across areas with different protocols.
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ViolentPanda said:
Is he as creepy as he looks? :hmm:
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Fucking slimy bastard who liked to try to intimidate staff in their early 20's. That whole place was full of bullies though. Britton was really there for his political contacts, useful for deregulating finance here and in Europe
 
An interesting aside to what happened to a US reporter investigating the abuse of children in the Haut de la Garenne home in Jersey and its possible connection to the higher echelons of the British establishment.
http://leahmcgrathgoodman.com/2012/06/29/anarchy-in-the-uk/

eta: She's still being refused a visa to enter the UK, maybe this investigation needs foreign reporters to investigate this matter. Also an EU wide police team might help too.
 
ViolentPanda said:
No matter how many times I see pictures of Leon Brittain, I'm still stunned by his oleaginous creepiness. Yuck!
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Sometimes our instincts are correct, and our reactions arise for good reason.
Why was he hurriedly exiled to Brussels in the late 80's? To remove him from an investigation about to take place where he would feature highly?
Just questions...no accusations.
 
Hahaha...very witty. :D

However, since gay marriage is not as yet a reality I cannot have a wife, let alone beat one if I did.

Or maybe you didn't notice my gender assignment on my account...
 
Blanche de Vere said:
Sometimes our instincts are correct, and our reactions arise for good reason.
Why was he hurriedly exiled to Brussels in the late 80's? To remove him from an investigation about to take place where he would feature highly?
Just questions...no accusations.
Click to expand...

It's certainly the case that Brittan was appointed to Brussels at a time when a couple of high-profile inquiries were taking place, although to infer from that alone that he was deliberately shifted out of harm's way would be jumping the gun, somewhat. It is safe to say, however, that it looks suspicious, but until we have substantive evidence, or the creepy bugger snuffs it, we have to be tight-lipped, unless we want to line the greasy cunt's pockets.
 
ViolentPanda said:
It's certainly the case that Brittan was appointed to Brussels at a time when a couple of high-profile inquiries were taking place, although to infer from that alone that he was deliberately shifted out of harm's way would be jumping the gun, somewhat. It is safe to say, however, that it looks suspicious, but until we have substantive evidence, or the creepy bugger snuffs it, we have to be tight-lipped, unless we want to line the greasy cunt's pockets.
Click to expand...

We could ask William Hague for substantive evidence but I doubt he'll give it since he's got his sights set on No. 10 for the future. Let's hope that any investigation is untouched by tainted interference and reveals the truth.
 
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