How much evidence is there of long term high level UK paedophile ring?

[free spirit]

Tonight then, we've found a Tory who isn't guilty of child abuse. Truly, a corner has been turned.

allegedly not guilty.

Best to put that bit in as he may feel like the odd one out in the tory party soon and feel the need to take action against those responsible for his being ostracised by his mates for not being part of their gang.

 

[Wilf]

Maybe in Tory families one goes into the church, one enters Parliament and the other does the noncing.

 

[free spirit]

so is it just the one and 2 child families where the kid is either both a politician and a nonce, or a priest and a nonce, or even all 3 at once?

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

The Sonia Poulton piece says "The government should announce an independent inquiry"

Aren't we going to be up to our ears in these?

How about just budgeting a separate pot of money to different police forces to crack on ASAP with interviewing people and working towards arrests and prosecutions as necessary?

Given that the Police themselves are not above suspicion, in this or some other cases, perhaps oversight could be under a specially put-together independent panel of legal, child welfare experts and similar.

 

[Prole]

^ The MacAlpine family estate was in Wrexham: http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/northeastwales/hi/people_and_places/newsid_8805000/8805496.stm

52.16 Similar difficulties arise about allegations made by witness B in a statement to the police, which he confirmed in part only when he gave oral evidence. The alleged abuser referred to by B, whom we will call X, has the surname of a well known and large non-Welsh family and he is said to be dead now. It has been suggested also (but not by B) that X was a friend or acquaintance of Howarth. According to B's statement to the police, X had several different motor cars and would wait for him at the bottom of Bryn Estyn Lane when he had a late pass. X would be accompanied by another paedophile now deceased and they would take B to various places. B alleged that he was buggered by X on four or five of these occasions, twice in the car in Moss Valley, once in the Crest Hotel at Wrexham and in the flat of Gary Cooke on the other occasions.

52.17 Witness B was, however, very reserved about these allegations when he gave oral evidence, saying that, after a particular press article had appeared, his house and his car had been destroyed and he had received numerous threats: he was not taking any chances any more. He said, for example, that he knew the christian name of X but that he was unwilling to disclose it. His recollection in the witness box was that he had seen X three times, including once at the Crest Hotel. X had a young man who was his driver and this man liked people to think he was a member of X's family. B was unable to say who had told him X's name.

52.18 Both Detective Superintendent Ackerley and Dean Nelson, a journalist to whom X had been mentioned, were asked about any further enquiries that they made to establish his identity. Ackerley said that it was difficult to identify which member of the family was being referred to: he never had anything tangible to get hold of. Nelson was more outspoken. He said that the name was mentioned to him but he never received any proper allegation about X. He added: "So far as I was concerned the X thing was a distraction. I wasn't looking into X and I never heard anything that made me think I should".

http://tna.europarchive.org/20040216040105/http://www.doh.gov.uk/lostincare/20154.htm
'he is said to be dead' - yes but by whom? If he wouldn't give the christian name who assumed it was the 'dead one' he was talking about? Doesn't make sense - would need to see the full transcripts.
Interesting McAlpine link to the Shrewsbury Pickets Conspiracy frame-up:

The Construction Industry’s Powerful Friends

Robert Alistair McAlpine became the Treasurer of the Conservative Party in 1975. The McAlpine family had great political influence in the North Wales area. The High Sheriff of Denbighshire, which is a large part of the county of Gwynedd, is the senior person responsible for law and order. Up to the 1970’s the past nine High Sheriffs had been members of the McAlpine family. The person appointed in April 1974 was Mr Peter Bell, a director of McAlpine and the son-in-law of the late Sir Alfred McAlpine, who was also Mr Bell’s predecessor as High Sheriff. McAlpines were the main contractors of the Brookside building site in Shrewsbury, which featured prominently in the charges against the pickets.

An indication of the power and influence of the Construction Industry is shown by this report of a private Christmas dinner organized by McAlpines in 1970.

“Anyone who can hold a private party and make it virtually impossible to get a cabinet quorum cannot be without influence or friends. In what other industry can any person boast of such a wide and diverse circle of acquaintances? None.”

Construction News 17 December 1970

The Occasion: the McAlpine’s Christmas beano December 1970

The Venue: The Mc Alpine’s own hotel, the Dorchester, Park Lane, London

The Menu : La Friande de Perdreau, whatever that may be, washed down with Chateau Rancan Gassies and rounded off with a copy of a biography of Ted Heath as a presentation for every guest.

The guest list: Unbelievable, 700 of the wealthiest, most powerful people in Britain. The following were on the top table.

Edward Heath yachtsman

Lord Chandos of Panmure Gordon stockbrokers

Sir Gerald Templer ex boss of the British Army and chairman of the British Metal Corporation

Harold MacMillan ExTory Prime Minister

Sir Joseph Lockwood boss of EMI director of Smith’s Industries, Beechams and Hawker Siddeley

Lord Thomson owner of Thomson Newspapers

Lord Inchape boss of P&O, director of Burmah Oil and BP Lord Renwick of W Greenwell stockbrokers

Selwyn Lloyd former Tory chancellor and Foreign Secretary

Sir Charles Forte boss.of Trust House Fortes

Sir Desmond Plummer former boss of the Greater London Council

Lord Perth boss of Tate & Lyle

Lord Amory former Tory chancellor of the Exchequer, ex director of Lloyds, ICI and

John Heathcoats

Ray Gunter former Labour Minister of Labour and director of Securicor

Gordon Brunton boss of Thomson Newspapers.

Lord Citrine former Electricians Union official, former Genral Secretary of the TUC, former Chairman of the Electricity Board

Charles Clore boss of the British Shoe Corporation, director of Scottish Motor Traction, Selfridges etc,

Dr Finniston boss of the British Steel Corporation

Sir Ronald Leach of Peat Marwick company doctors

Lord Hall former head of the Post Office
Lord Stow Hill formerly Frank Soskice, Labour Home Secretary

Sir David Brown owns David Brown Tractors

J A Boyd Carpenter ex Tory Minister and chairman of the Civil Aviation Authority

Lord Mancroft Ex Tory minister, Cunard and Great Universal Stores director

Sir Louis Gluckstein head of Great Universal Stores

Sir Alec Douglas Home former Tory Prime Minister and smallholder

Sir Halford Reddish free enterprise fanatic, boss of Rugby Portland Cement and director of Granada.

Reginald Maulding director of several dubious companies

Lord Showcross former chairman of BSA, and former Labour Attorney General

Sir Arnold Weinstock boss of GEC

Duncan Sandys former Tory Minister director of Llonrho

Lord Hill former boss head of the BBC and the ITA

Sir Max Rayne head of London Merchant Securities, the property empire

Lord Aldington friend of Jack Jones, director of English China Clays and G EC

Sir Harold Samuel property king and boss of Land Securities

John Peyton Tory Minister of Transport

Sir Miles Thomas director of the Thomson Organisation and of a dubious gambling club, ‘The Pair of Shoes’

Sir Paul Chambers formerly of ICI now insurance magnate and director of National Westminster

The Employers And The Conservative Government - The Official Shrewsbury 24 Campaign | The Official Shrewsbury 24 Campaign

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

The party that you brought you Section 28 - now worried about a gay witchunt. LOL.

We need a mass call-out for solidarity with gay witches.

 

[Wilf]

so is it just the one and 2 child families where the kid is either both a politician and a nonce, or a priest and a nonce, or even all 3 at once?

That would be an ecumenical matter.

 

[elbows]

Ha ha, the media picked up on that youtube clip of covert footage of Max Clifford talking about Alan Clark, and he has had to respond.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...alan-clarks-underage-sex-scandal-8298532.html

They are wrong to think the clip was first posted on the net 'last night', as evidenced by my post in this thread on Novermber 1st, albeit that particular instance of the clip on youtube was made private after I saw it at the time.

Anyone here familiar with the history of covert video footage of Max Clifford? There was a clip on youtube of him saying things about Alan Clark but its been made private since I first saw it. I was wondering what the origins of the clip were and whether this part was was known already.

 

[editor]

im not too sure about the content either.

It was on a computer repair company's site.

I've deleted the link and I wish I hadn't seen the content too.

 

[Barking_Mad]

His words may hasve been reported (he said that his abuser was dead and they all jumped to the conclusion it was the wrong guy)

It's early and I may be half asleep, but where has Messham said something incorrect?

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Someone upthread wondered if Dunblane would rear it's head, there was a bit of a discussion about the 100 year d notices.

Here's the problem: People here are probably motivated by concern for victims, justice and the stink of cover-up.

But there are more tawdry political agendas afoot as we know. The BBC deserves to be ripped to shit over Savile, but it has been ripped to shit by the right at least as much because it is the BBC.

Now the boot has been on the other foot, and the phrase "child abuse" could start to get linked to "tory" in a highly damaging way, the level that could even destroy the government once you factor in cover-up.

So there may well be an appetite in the press to level the party political playing field, and there may not be too much difficulty in doing so.

 

[elbows]

It's early and I may be half asleep, but where has Messham said something incorrect?

I've no wish to start picking at a victim, but if you read that Guardian article, the Times article, Webster articles, and look back through this thread you will find various concerns and inconsistencies that go all the way back to the original investigations. I would hope thats all I have to say about the matter but I fear that wont be enough, however someone else will have to do the detail if thats the case, since as I said I dont want to focus my attention on picking on him.

 

[Diamond]

Despite initially thinking this sounded like a major story, I've got to say I find Richard Webster's stuff on child abuse witch-hunts is starting to really resonate with all of this:

http://www.richardwebster.net/

 

[elbows]

I expect its still a major story, just not the one that has blown up to such extreme proportions in the last week.

 

[Prole]

There is still the aide to an ex-PM that is linked to the Righton evidence file and isn't Morrison. To start downplaying this is to ignore the fact that at the heart of the most vicious right-wing government were (at least) Morrison and Savile both of whom were protected by the establishment. Rather than Webster, who was some distance from all of this, I prefer the analysis of EIleen Fairweather and Liz Davies who are both closely linked to the victims and the evidence and who say this investigation hasn't even scraped the surface and for the victims there has been precious little justice.

"The leads were not followed up but if the file still exists I want to ensure that the Metropolitan Police secure the evidence, re-examine it and investigate clear links of a powerful paedophile network linked to parliament and No 10."

 

[elbows]

The mirror picked up on the destroyed photo stuff that was discussed on channel 4 news yesterday:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/north-wales-paedophile-scandal-photographic-1426356

 

[elbows]

McAlpine issued a statement so the media that were still being cautious about naming him despite the Guardian article dont have to hold back anymore.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20267832

 

[nino_savatte]

Hmmm, I'm reserving judgement about that Guardian article. The word that springs to mind is "diversion". And no, I am not a conspiraloon.

 

[elbows]

I need fore time before judging that. Given how silly the twitter storm and related matters had become, this aspect urgently needed to be dealt with. I could easily argue that it had become a diversion in itself, and so I cant really call attempts to clarify it a diversion.

I can say that the way the BBC were using these issues last night was pretty diversionary, and if peter Morrison isnt looked at in greater detail then I will start to shout.

 

[nino_savatte]

Interestingly enough, Scallywag seemed pretty certain it was Alistair McAlpine.

 

[elbows]

Scallyway wasnt exactly the gospel. I believe publications such as that have a very useful role to play, and I mourn the lack of such things today (Private Eye is a bit limp) but only as part of a balanced diet.

We shall see, there may be other aspects of Scallywag stories that have more to them, not sure it will ever become clear though.

 

[nino_savatte]

Private Eye is an establishment journal that much is true. I knew a few people who worked for Scallywag, one of whom told me that he was not to ask questions about Julian Lewis's purchase of the contents of the magazine's office.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Hmmm, I'm reserving judgement about that Guardian article. The word that springs to mind is "diversion". And no, I am not a conspiraloon.

haha, you are now! ;-)

I agree mind

 

[Barking_Mad]

Interestingly enough, Scallywag seemed pretty certain it was Alistair McAlpine.

Blame it on your dead brother, i like it

 

[nino_savatte]

haha, you are now! ;-)

I agree mind

It seems the way to silence people is to accuse them of being "conspiracy theorists". If I am not mistaken, several Tories have accused Tom Watson of just that.

 

[Treacle Toes]

The memes have landed!

 

[elbows]

Private Eye is an establishment journal that much is true. I knew a few people who worked for Scallywag, one of whom told me that he was not to ask questions about Julian Lewis's purchase of the contents of the magazine's office.

An amusing aside from a Brutus column in the Express, Feb 4 1999:

DR Julian Lewis, Tory MP for New Forest East, is a keen defender of his reputation and a formidable litigant. So he must have been disappointed by one aspect of a case which was brought by the Crown against his arch-enemy Simon Regan, former editor of the scurrilous Scallywag magazine, under the Representation of the People Act 1983, which enjoins prosecution of those who make false statements about election candidates. For although Dr Lewis won a court victory over certain homosexual slurs on Regan's website, Regan, nonetheless, proved that he had believed, and had had reasonable grounds to believe, that Dr Lewis was "a dirty little two-bit trickster who illegally bugged innocent people and created false evidence against them" and that he was a "cheating charlatan". How unfortunate!

 

[nino_savatte]

An amusing aside from a Brutus column in the Express, Feb 4 1999:

Lewis, yeah, he's a dirty fucker. He used the courts as his weapon against the Labour left and CND in the late 70s/early 80s.

He also voted against lowering the age of consent for gay men on the grounds that gay men were all "AIDS carriers".

 

[el-ahrairah]

I smell of rat, can we trust gov and media?

a witch!

 

[nino_savatte]

Ali McAlpine's statement
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/nov/09/lord-mcalpine-statement-full-text?CMP=twt_fd