How much evidence is there of long term high level UK paedophile ring?

[DotCommunist]

Also, and I think I have made this point before on this thread. There was not one Geoffrey Dickens dossier. As far as I recall, there were around 8.

nearly as many as the referals made to the DPP who dismissed them out of hand regarding one Lord Janner. Its almost like their was a sustained and serious abuse sexually on the children of the least powerful by the most powerful and it has been deliberatly kept on the QT for 40 odd years. Perhaps an inquiry of some sort could be proposed?

You can fuck off with your 'hysteria' shit. It was funny to do that joke before glitter and saville and righton and brittan and kincora revealed a depravity that goes beyond anything my mind could concieve possible.

 

[existentialist]

In fact I think this crosses the line and I've reported it. Telling people who have been subjected to physical and sexual abuse that it never happened and they're being hysterical is either trolling or just evil.

TBF, he may not have read that particular thread. Not that I disagree with you about him being out of order...

 

[Lucy Fur]

The language you use is typical of this hysteria - a marauding army of paedos lurking in the shadows...

There's something typically British about all this stuff. We had a round of paedo-fear in the early 00s - remember that Brass Eye episode? - and this looks an awful lot like the same pitchfork like crusades.

The point being is that they were increasingly incredible - he was instrumental in the Satanic Ritual Abuse panic and was never taken seriously at the time.

http://saff.nfshost.com/dickens.htm

So where do you stand on this as your posts seem somewhat contradictory.

 

[Diamond]

So where do you stand on this as your posts seem somewhat contradictory.

Where is the contradiction?

Spell it out and perhaps I can assist you on clarity...

 

[Lucy Fur]

Where is the contradiction?

Spell it out and perhaps I can assist you on clarity...

No need to spell it out, my first impression was wrong, I see now you are just warming to your theme that the current situation is one of unjustified hysteria. A view I find pretty abhorrent, and we will just have to agree to disagree on that.

 

[eatmorecheese]

The language you use is typical of this hysteria - a marauding army of paedos lurking in the shadows...QUOTE]

This is truly revolting. Do you view any topic as an opprtunity for this sort of point scoring?

Astonishing. Please stop this.

 

[ViolentPanda]

The point being is that they were increasingly incredible - he was instrumental in the Satanic Ritual Abuse panic and was never taken seriously at the time.

"Instrumental"?
He rode on the coat-tails of an already-existing transatlantic conspiracy theory-cum-mini industry that was already rooted into social work and psychology academia over here, and had filtered into general social work and some therapeutic psychology. Dickens was "targeted" as a parliamentary figurehead by the SRA-purveyors like Valerie Sinasson because of his previous campaigning on paedophilia. The moral panic was already in full flight in the UK when he became involved.

 

[ViolentPanda]

SAFF (Sorcerer's Apprentice Fighting Fund, as it was originally known) isn't a credible information source. Much as I admire and like the author (who I've known since 1989 - he's well-known in occult and Masonic circles), he's not exactly unbiased with regard to Dickens and with "Satanic Panic" hysteria in general, given how much that hysteria cost him.

 

[Plumdaff]

I know I just lurk on this thread, but can we all please not allow one of the most informative, best threads here to be hijacked by stupidity, however tempting.

 

[ViolentPanda]

No need to spell it out, my first impression was wrong, I see now you are just warming to your theme that the current situation is one of unjustified hysteria. A view I find pretty abhorrent, and we will just have to agree to disagree on that.

I truly wish it was "unjustified hysteria". However, having been in foster care myself (although thankfully not for long), and grown up with several kids who lived in local "childrens' homes" in the boroughs of Lambeth and Wandsworth, I know it isn't - I knew too many kids whose main problem when they went into care was being mixed race (yep, really ), and whose problems when they left care were the result of sexual, physical and emotional abuse.
Likewise, I know that a teacher at my school (I was there in the '70s) was a predatory paedophile, that he was exposed as such while I was there, but that he was allowed to keep on teaching. He was eventually done for grooming then buggering some of his charges while teaching at a private school in Surrey in 1997, so for at least 20 years he had a "clear run" at damaging young lives.
I also recall the multiple sexual abuse scandals across London boroughs between the '70s and the '90s with regard to care homes and "special schools", and how poorly-reported they were, in national coverage terms. One reason for this was because municipal re-insurers (who sensed massive liability) started demanding that local authorities suppressed such scandals as quickly as possible - in order to minimise claims.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I know I just lurk on this thread, but can we all please not allow one of the most informative, best threads here to be hijacked by stupidity, however tempting.

Well said.

 

[Lucy Fur]

I truly wish it was "unjustified hysteria". However, having been in foster care myself (although thankfully not for long), and grown up with several kids who lived in local "childrens' homes" in the boroughs of Lambeth and Wandsworth, I know it isn't - I knew too many kids whose main problem when they went into care was being mixed race (yep, really ), and whose problems when they left care were the result of sexual, physical and emotional abuse.
Likewise, I know that a teacher at my school (I was there in the '70s) was a predatory paedophile, that he was exposed as such while I was there, but that he was allowed to keep on teaching. He was eventually done for grooming then buggering some of his charges while teaching at a private school in Surrey in 1997, so for at least 20 years he had a "clear run" at damaging young lives.
I also recall the multiple sexual abuse scandals across London boroughs between the '70s and the '90s with regard to care homes and "special schools", and how poorly-reported they were, in national coverage terms. One reason for this was because municipal re-insurers (who sensed massive liability) started demanding that local authorities suppressed such scandals as quickly as possible - in order to minimise claims.

In deed, im in my mid 40's and as a kid I grew up in a village and went to school in Guildford. There was a bus driver who happily let you go for free, if you sat at the front on the dash, and we would for the extra sweety money not paying bus fare brought us, and we became quite deft at never letting his casual hand wander too far north when it landed on your knee. I had a teacher, who's reputation proceeded him, and whom once kept me back for extra tuition. During which he placed his hand under my shirt and up my back. I stood up and told him to fuck off. he gave me a wide burth thereafter, and his final report he said "it will be a releif to us both when he finally gives up this subject" which in hind sight possibly said more about him than me. None of my experiences come close to some of the stuff thats coming out at all, and I certainly dont put it up to compare, but it leaves me in no doubt that mine and more importantly others much worse experiences were a good deal more wide spread than recorded at the time.

 

[Diamond]

Again, this thread being hijacked code...

It simply means that if someone is disturbing our inquiry by, shock horror!, disagreeing with the direction in which it travels, then they are ruining our grand project.

There are two points to bring out here:

First, this is a thread on a public internet bulletin board. There is no grand project. There is nothing to be ruined. You are not building anything. You have not launched an investigation. You are simply whiling away the hours. To pretend otherwise is, quite frankly, absurd in the extreme. There is no architecture, there will be no hulking remains. This is ephemeral entertainment that means nothing.

Second, if you argue that dissenting opinions are "hijacking" your conversations, perhaps you can play that through in to free speech implications. Or perhaps you cannot because you have not thought about them.

 

[eatmorecheese]

Several of my contemporaries at boarding school are still battling their own demons, alcohol dependence and broken relationships that relate directly to being sexually and emotionally abused by people who were trusted to care for them in loco parentis.

Diamond , fuck off with your 'ephemeral entertainment that means nothing'. That it means nothing to you is clear. Don't assume that others don't value the contributions and find them useful in their own way.

 

[Libertad]

Again, this thread being hijacked code...

It simply means that if someone is disturbing our inquiry by, shock horror!, disagreeing with the direction in which it travels, then they are ruining our grand project.

There are two points to bring out here:

First, this is a thread on a public internet bulletin board. There is no grand project. There is nothing to be ruined. You are not building anything. You have not launched an investigation. You are simply whiling away the hours. To pretend otherwise is, quite frankly, absurd in the extreme. There is no architecture, there will be no hulking remains. This is ephemeral entertainment that means nothing.

Second, if you argue that dissenting opinions are "hijacking" your conversations, perhaps you can play that through in to free speech implications. Or perhaps you cannot because you have not thought about them.

Have you read the thread? If you have then it should be evident that your contributions have added nothing of any value to it.

 

[Plumdaff]

Deep breaths everyone please.

 

[nino_savatte]

Again, this thread being hijacked code...

It simply means that if someone is disturbing our inquiry by, shock horror!, disagreeing with the direction in which it travels, then they are ruining our grand project.

There are two points to bring out here:

First, this is a thread on a public internet bulletin board. There is no grand project. There is nothing to be ruined. You are not building anything. You have not launched an investigation. You are simply whiling away the hours. To pretend otherwise is, quite frankly, absurd in the extreme. There is no architecture, there will be no hulking remains. This is ephemeral entertainment that means nothing.

Second, if you argue that dissenting opinions are "hijacking" your conversations, perhaps you can play that through in to free speech implications. Or perhaps you cannot because you have not thought about them.

Hello, Reg Folder.

 

[editor]

Again, this thread being hijacked code...

It simply means that if someone is disturbing our inquiry by, shock horror!, disagreeing with the direction in which it travels, then they are ruining our grand project.

There are two points to bring out here:

First, this is a thread on a public internet bulletin board. There is no grand project. There is nothing to be ruined. You are not building anything. You have not launched an investigation. You are simply whiling away the hours. To pretend otherwise is, quite frankly, absurd in the extreme. There is no architecture, there will be no hulking remains. This is ephemeral entertainment that means nothing.

Second, if you argue that dissenting opinions are "hijacking" your conversations, perhaps you can play that through in to free speech implications. Or perhaps you cannot because you have not thought about them.

I'm not taking sides here but I've had enough reported posts from enough different posters over enough threads over a long enough period of time to know that you are indeed fucking up threads and intentionally disrupting discussions. I can't believe that you're not fully aware of what you're doing, so take this as you first warning. Please desist.

I will also tell you that I will NOT discuss this matter on this thread further and if you attempt to drag me into it, you will be warned again.

 

[Diamond]

I'm not taking sides here but I've had enough reported posts from enough different posters over enough threads over a long enough period of time to know that you are indeed fucking up threads and intentionally disrupting discussions. I can't believe that you're not fully aware of what you're doing, so take this as you first warning. Please desist.

I will also tell you that I will NOT discuss this matter on this thread further and if you attempt to drag me into it, you will be warned again.

You do whatever you see fit. It's your set of boards, your property, your rules but I think it would set a pretty poor example to silence someone because they simply disagree with other posters.

I have not harassed anyone; I simply hold opinions that differ from others.

If that merits a ban, then go ahead but I would suggest that it would reflect badly on the mode of discussion in general here.

I also have no idea which posters are reporting myself for whatever reasons - a bit more perspective might help...

 

[Diamond]

Right - official warning received, notably without any particulars, time to withdraw. Enjoy your inquiry folks...

 

[Pickman's model]

You do whatever you see fit. It's your set of boards, your property, your rules but I think it would set a pretty poor example to silence someone because they simply disagree with other posters.

I have not harassed anyone; I simply hold opinions that differ from others.

If that merits a ban, then go ahead but I would suggest that it would reflect badly on the mode of discussion in general here.

I also have no idea which posters are reporting myself for whatever reasons - a bit more perspective might help...

some self-awareness and -reflection may clear away your confusion.

 

[laptop]

some self-awareness and -reflection may clear away your confusion.

Now I have to wipe coffee of my screen

/derail

 

[existentialist]

some self-awareness and -reflection may clear away your confusion.

If I thought for a moment that sharing some of my own first-hand experience (rather than some friend-of-a-friend hearsay) might actually help, I'd put Diamond in the picture. But I can't imagine that anyone here would expect him to respond in any way other than the usual, and I really don't particularly want all that thrown back in my face .

 

[two sheds]

And for me it wasn't the "simply hold opinions that differ from others", it was the way those opinions were expressed.

/back to thread

 

[elbows]

According to this Exaro story from some days ago, the 'abused in Staffordshire woods by Lib Dem MP and others' has gone from a scoping exercise to a full-blown criminal investigation:

http://www.exaronews.com/articles/5641/video-esther-baker-on-how-police-have-stepped-up-abuse-case

 

[elbows]

It seems that 6 of Janners alleged victims have had to press on with suing him now, rather than waiting till any criminal trial/trial of facts is done, because his lawyers denied a request which would have made the timing better:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/lord-janner-sued-six-alleged-6288407#ICID=sharebar_twitter

 

[Citizen66]

The fuck happened to this thread?

 

[elbows]

It will be ok, just move on.

 

[Pickman's model]

The fuck happened to this thread?

diamond

 

[existentialist]

It seems that 6 of Janners alleged victims have had to press on with suing him now, rather than waiting till any criminal trial/trial of facts is done, because his lawyers denied a request which would have made the timing better:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/lord-janner-sued-six-alleged-6288407#ICID=sharebar_twitter

And the sickening thing is that there will no doubt be those who will regard those who sue their abusers as no more than opportunists out for a bit of easy money. No matter that their lives might have been blighted by the aftermath of abuse, or that the lost opportunities and efforts to overcome that aftermath have cost them dearly, their actions will be seen - probably by the same narrow-minded fools who regard this topic as mere self-indulgence and manufactured fear - as capitalising on the publicity that has belatedly begun to arise over these long-suppressed injustices.