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Hillsborough files: Cabinet office appeals against disclosure

TopCat said:
It's a reasonable guess that Maggie Thatcher made horrendous comments about the dead in the cabinet discussions.
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My friends funeral was described by the press as vulgar and the girls who attended of which i was one were basically described as cheap tarts. I can't remember the exact language used but it wasn't so different from that. The hatred expressed towards Liverpool in the eighties was truly vile and utterly politically motivated.
 
The Hillsborough Panel already has access to all government documents, and is prioritising their disclosure to the bereaved families. I'm very worried about this petition, as it could lead to the release of these papers to the media before they are released to the Hillsborough families, and could be used to disrupt the work of the Hillsborough Panel, which is due to report early 2012.
 
Surely if this petition results in a parliamentary debate, then that is exactly the kind thing that would be debated? It would seem reasonable for the government to agree to release the minutes, in full, after the findings of the Hillsborough Panel have been reported?
 
123bpm said:
The Hillsborough Panel already has access to all government documents, and is prioritising their disclosure to the bereaved families. I'm very worried about this petition, as it could lead to the release of these papers to the media before they are released to the Hillsborough families, and could be used to disrupt the work of the Hillsborough Panel, which is due to report early 2012.
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I am as yet unaware of anyone connected to the Hillsborough families opposing this petition. The only public statement regarding it i've seen is from Margaret Aspinall who wrote this in The Times after the petition started. There's nothing in it ciritcising the petition.

Margaret Aspinall - Why We Fight On After 22 Years


MY son, James, was 18-years-old when he died at Hillsborough. The day after the disaster I went to Sheffield to bring his body home and being a mum I took his coat with me because he didn’t like the cold.

I remember saying to someone “put his coat on, I want to take him home,” and I was told he did not belong to me, he belongs to the coroner. In all my screams I said to them “He still belongs to me because no-one’s cut the unbilical cord. He’s mine and he always will be.” That’s why I carry on. As a mother what else could I do?

I brought five children into the world. James was my first born. People say to me I have another four children to carry on for but I did not give birth to four, I gave birth to five. I carry on for the love, for the compassion and for the hurt I still feel for James and I’ve got to do everything in my power to fight for him. I didn’t only lose a son that day. My children also lost a brother.

He did nothing wrong that day. He did everything right but like all other Liverpool supporters he got accused of being drunk and so much else. We’ve got to clear their names. As a mum with so much love for a child I can no longer see, he is still in my heart and always will be.

For 22 years the fans, the survivors and the 96, have been called for everything. The families have gone through hell. We are not fighting for revenge. All we have ever wanted is the truth and accountability.

As a group of bereaved people, the hardcore of the families have been together since day one. Joan Traynor was our treasurer for 20 years before she became ill. She lost two sons. I spoke to Joan on the phone two days before she died and her last words to be were “I hope God spares me just long enough to see the truth for my boys. That’s all I want.” Unfortunately, God didn’t spare her. That is another reason why we must carry on. We also lost Eddie Spearitt recently while Phil Hammond has had his health concerns. The fight is now not just about the 96. It is also about the people we have lost along the way.

We are all old now. We started off having raffles to keep the group going and to keep the momentum going. It worked and it’s tremendous that we’ve all stuck together for this long. We all have different opinions and rightly so but we have stayed united. If it wasn’t for everyone else we would not have got this far. The support we’ve had, not just from Liverpool, has given us the strength to carry on when we have been at our lowest ebb. Even this week an online petition has been signed by more than 50,000 people.

We all want to know why our loved ones died at a football match. James came home five days later in a coffin. I need to know the truth. At the time I probably would’ve hung, drawn and quartered those responsible but that was just anger. I’ve gone beyond that now. I just want the truth. I’ve got to have some peace in my heart and for the rest of my family.

I want someone to show that what The Sun did a couple of days later was a disgrace. I want somebody to print, not for people just in this country to see but for people all around the world, that they did nothing wrong that day and I want the apologies that we’ve never received. They said they had The Truth but they never, they just had lies. That’s why we must have the real truth.
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100,000 have now signed the e-Petition, so they have to 'consider the matter for debate'. They being the committeee overseeing the matter of backbenchers' debates.
Put another way, if the HoCwants to debate this, the govt can't stop this
 
Fedayn said:
I am as yet unaware of anyone connected to the Hillsborough families opposing this petition. The only public statement regarding it i've seen is from Margaret Aspinall who wrote this in The Times after the petition started. There's nothing in it ciritcising the petition.
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You're right, I have yet to see any of the families oppose the petition, but I am still worried that release of documentation to the media prior to, or contemporaneously with, release of documentation to the families, will be counter-productive for all who seek the truth.

In The Guardian today, one of the Panel members, Phil Scraton, stated ""The important aspect of full disclosure is that the families are the first to receive material from the panel and that it then goes more broadly into the public domain". The article also states that "Margaret Aspinall, chair of the Hillsborough Family Support Group, backed the panel's position but also urged the government to release an unequivocal statement promising full disclosure of the potentially embarrassing documents".
 
I've got a lot of respect for Phil if he's saying that I would think he has the families interests first. Personally I think they should be the first to see them. And then the rest of us can have our say.
 
From epetitions

This e-petition has received the following response:

This e-petition has reached 100,000 signatures. The Government has notified the Backbench Business Committee in the House of Commons who will consider its suitability for debate when Parliament returns in September. This e-petition will remain live, and people will be able to continue adding their signatures.

In the meantime, we would like to update you on the Government’s current position on the substance of this e-petition:

The Government has confirmed its commitment to full transparency about the Hillsborough disaster through full public disclosure. All papers had previously been shared with the Hillsborough Independent Panel. The Government is happy for all the papers, including Cabinet papers, to be released as soon as the Panel so decides, in consultation with the families. We expect them to be shared with the Hillsborough families first and then to the wider public.
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I would think another reason for supressing this, is that it might remind people of Thatcher's class hatred.(supposing that is, that she may have made some remarks in cabinet that she may have not made in public. Along with 'we have to protect our boys in blue' speculation posted above).

If any of this comes out, it puts a stop to the plans that Tony and Dave have long had for her state funeral
 
The problem however is that the government has always said this was the case even when they made clear they intended to appeal the decision of the FOI Commissioner, so they're not saying anything new. The issue is will they still appeal the FOIC decision?!
 
Cameron appears to have been raving into a minefield, the clueless twat.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-15464063

Ms Berger, speaking in the Commons during Prime Minister's Questions, said to Mr Cameron: "Yesterday it was reported you compared the families of those who died at Hillsborough to a blind man in dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there, and claimed you weren't getting enough credit for the release of government papers relating to the tragedy.
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