Grenfell Tower fire in North Kensington - news and discussion

[Pickman's model]

Im coming in to this debate late. Can someone explain to me why there's talk of hundreds dead?

I used to work in social housing-and one of the areas had tower blocks. As a landlord we knew the occupants-and the amount for each flat. Granted there'll be variations such as guests staying over etc

So why is there talk of deaths running into the 'hundreds'?

Is this just conspiracy theory or is there any substance in this?

I think you confuse potential exaggeration with ct

 

[NoXion]

Are you absolutely raving mad? I didn't check who the video was uploaded by but on looking just now I see it's someone with a youtube account called witness who has this video and 11 others about katie fucking Perry ffs, you fucking sock-muppet. And the rest of you paranoics who went, yeah, it's oiks agenda. What a bunch of numpties. Get a life.

Go take a look in the mirror. Unfuckigbelievable. You couldn't make this shit up.

Here's the video in question if anyone wants to contrast the information themselves. Or is katie Perry part of some kind of strasserite conspiracy?

The only numpty here is you. Check your sources you stupid plank. Or do you really think that conspiradribble YouTube channels are a good place to find videos?

 

[editor]

Im coming in to this debate late. Can someone explain to me why there's talk of hundreds dead?

I used to work in social housing-and one of the areas had tower blocks. As a landlord we knew the occupants-and the amount for each flat. Granted there'll be variations such as guests staying over etc

So why is there talk of deaths running into the 'hundreds'?

Is this just conspiracy theory or is there any substance in this?

It's not unusual for poor quality social housing in poor areas to be sublet, or be home to far more people than what's on the tenancy agreement.

 

[ska invita]

Im coming in to this debate late. Can someone explain to me why there's talk of hundreds dead?

I used to work in social housing-and one of the areas had tower blocks. As a landlord we knew the occupants-and the amount for each flat. Granted there'll be variations such as guests staying over etc

So why is there talk of deaths running into the 'hundreds'?

Is this just conspiracy theory or is there any substance in this?

I dont think anyone is suggesting more than 200 - somewhere between 100-200 seems to be realistic

 

[NoXion]

Never heard of them and don't see any right wing agenda in any of the videos I've seen or posted about the Grenfell massacre.

Here's a handy rule of thumb, if a source mentions any of the following: New World Order/NWO, Illuminati, Bilderbergs, Trilateral Commission, Soros, the value of gold and how important it is that you acquire great quantities of this impractical metal, Flat Earth, then it's a crap source and should be entirely disregarded. The fact that such sources can draw from the real world (such as from vox pops) is no guarantee of reliability, since there is such a thing as editing and cherry picking.

Hope this helps.

 

[starfish]

RIP.

 

[editor]

Lot of people angry about Grenfell at the anti-coalition demo today.

 

[bi0boy]

I dont think anyone is suggesting more than 200 - somewhere between 100-200 seems to be realistic

Really? With 58 people reported missing?

 

[Lurdan]

I dont think anyone is suggesting more than 200 - somewhere between 100-200 seems to be realistic

Police just gave a press conference in which they said they had identified 58 people who they were credibly informed were in the building and were unaccounted for. They stressed that this figure was not set in stone. There was a possibility that some of these 58 people may actually have survived but not been located or come forward and that there was also a possibility that other people had died in the building who had not been identified. {ETA : In addition to that list of 58] 16 bodies had been recovered and {ETA: in total] 30 people were known to have died.

That would suggest that the total number of dead was less than a hundred. However because of the hazardous nature of the site it could be some weeks before we have a definitive total of bodies recovered, and as stated earlier in the week there was a possibility that some bodies might never be identified

 

[1927]

Ah yes, but the Twin Towers were also pre-wired with massive explosives and were also hit by holographic, missile firing rockets made to look like passenger aircraft. At least, that's what Jazz told me.

well they certainly didn't collapse just because of fire.

 

[Idris2002]

well they certainly didn't collapse just because of fire.

Can we not do this here, please?

 

[scifisam]

Im coming in to this debate late. Can someone explain to me why there's talk of hundreds dead?

I used to work in social housing-and one of the areas had tower blocks. As a landlord we knew the occupants-and the amount for each flat. Granted there'll be variations such as guests staying over etc

So why is there talk of deaths running into the 'hundreds'?

Is this just conspiracy theory or is there any substance in this?

-Subletters
-Lodgers, in part due to the bedroom tax
-Air B&B - this is Kensington after all
-People visiting (including for Ramadan)
-People added to the home after the tenancy was taken on, like new partners, babies or live in carers, none of which need to be reported to the landlord (of course, people may have left too)
-Some of the above may be undocumented and therefore not being reported as missing

You can't just take the number of tenants, deduct the number of survivors and come up with a rough estimate of the victims.

 

[bi0boy]

It's Ramadan and a lot of the residents had guests.

That's nonsensical because if some had guests due to Ramadan, an equal proportion might have been away as guests elsewhere for the same reason.

 

[bi0boy]

You can't just take the number of tenants, deduct the number of survivors and come up with a rough estimate of the victims.

The estimates of the number of victims are not arrived at by doing that though...

 

[scifisam]

The estimates of the number of victims are not arrived at by doing that though...

No, but that's what was being suggested.

There may be people in that building who have not been reported missing. In fact tbh I'd say it's likely there's at least a few.

 

[Grandma Death]

-Subletters

You can't just take the number of tenants, deduct the number of survivors and come up with a rough estimate of the victims.

No Im aware of that which is why I mentioned variables in my post. Its just figures dont seem to match up with 'official figures' which seem to be heading towards 100.

But there's lot of chatter on social media and conspiracy of a cover up and the latest figure I saw from FB was just over 500-these figures seem to wildly vary. Even given the variables-100 is obviously very different to just over 500

 

[Dandred]

.

 

[Dandred]

Why didn't they collapse like WT5?

 

[Dandred]

 

[scifisam]

No Im aware of that which is why I mentioned variables in my post. Its just figures dont seem to match up with 'official figures' which seem to be heading towards 100.

But there's lot of chatter on social media and conspiracy of a cover up and the latest figure I saw from FB was just over 500-these figures seem to wildly vary. Even given the variables-100 is obviously very different to just over 500

500 maybe comes from people seeing estimates of numbers of tenants (5-600) then seeing the council they've rehoused 44 families temporarily - a number which has gone up and down due to nearby homes also being evacuated - and not understanding that families means multiple people. Also a lot of people kind of enjoy catastrophising and competing with each other on how dramatic they can be. Given the nature of the internet these people stick out more than their actual size should suggest.

 

[Treacle Toes]

 

[killer b]

erm no.

 

[The Boy]

Maybe fuck off?

Edit: unless I've seriously misread that post, in which case I apologise.

 

[LDC]

You fucking what? Don't you fucking dare start with that here.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

We are not having 9/11 Truthing on this thread.

ETA: actually we're not having it anywhere but we're definitely not having it here.

 

[8den]

Fucking hell. Bizarre.

Maybot is like the reverse Donald Trump. He can't stick to a script and she's incapable of deviating from her fixed "talking points".

Utterly fucking useless the pair of them.

 

[8den]

 

[8den]

Even if it's a joke it's in incredibly poor taste. Fuck off.

 

[Dogsauce]

No, but that's what was being suggested.

There may be people in that building who have not been reported missing. In fact tbh I'd say it's likely there's at least a few.

One point I saw mentioned was that people who may have been in the building 'illegitimately' (for want of a better term) e.g. subletters, people without legal right of residence in U.K. may have escaped but may not have identified themselves to authorities for obvious reasons. There's been a specific request made for them to come forward without fear of action just so they can be accounted for. It'll add to more confusion over numbers.

The BBC reported that the 58 missing does include the 30 already located, but they think there may be more, around 70 in total. This is still quite a bit less than some of the numbers being thrown around. Not sure what difference it all makes, it's still a big number and still devastating.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Police saying there are still 58 missing, all thought to be dead. I think that brings the number of dead so far to 88.

I'm wrong here. Current known dead is 58 as it included some already counted in the previous total of 30.

Speaking outside Notting Hill Methodist church on Saturday, Commander Stuart Cundy confirmed that 30 people are known to have died, but that an additional 28 people known to have been in the building are also thought to be among the victims.

Grenfell Tower: 58 people missing, presumed dead as Theresa May admits response was 'not good enough'