Grenfell Tower fire in North Kensington - news and discussion

[1%er]

Radio news here has just reported that some of the crowd outside of the town hall have turned on a camera man at the demo, anyone know what news org he is from?

 

[Dr. Furface]

As others have said, they've been inundated with donations and don't need any more at the moment. There was a guy on the radio this morning saying that what they really needed was cardboard boxes to put stuff they've received into a storage facility out near Heathrow - however that was hours ago so I don't know if they've got all the boxes they need by now.

I heard this morning that a packaging company heard the appeal for cardboard boxes and immediately rushed over 700 of them to the centres!

 

[J Ed]

Also:

No, There Isn't A "D-Notice" Banning The Media From Reporting Details Of The Grenfell Fire

Thanks DaveCinzano

 

[crossthebreeze]

flabbergasting

surely the police etc would ask the council for a list of the number of people - tenants and their families - living there? surely easy enough to say "there's 450 people living there" or however many.

The way the council answered the question was incredibly callous and buck-passing, but, as me, frogwoman, and weepiper have said before, the council/tmo will have a list of tenants and leaseholders, and the members of the tenants household when they moved in - but almost certainly don't know how many people living there in total. You don't have to inform housing when you give birth or a child starts living with you. Many housing providers have stopped asking tenants to inform them when a partner/adult family member/friend or lodger moves in. Many tenants probably don't keep the council up to date with who lives with them anyway. Sofa surfing and overcrowding is on the increase because of austerity. Subletting and air b&b will undoubtedly have been happening. Private leaseholders can rent out to who they want without informing the council. People have guests (perhaps especially during ramadan). Some sick and disabled people might have overnight carers. Some of the additional people living there or staying there may well be undocumented migrants or wanting to avoid being on official records for whatever reason.

 

[Wilf]

Radio news here has just reported that some of the crowd outside of the town hall have turned on a camera man at the demo, anyone know what news org he is from?

There was one bit in the coverage where a camera shot up towards the sky, impossible to tell if it was something or nothing. There was also one bit where the idiot reporter asked a woman why the people were all down there. He was answered fairly robustly, but nobody even laid a finger on him. So, no, nothing I saw at least.

 

[J Ed]

Am I right in saying that what is going on now is spontaneous, and the organised protest is scheduled to start later?

 

[DaveCinzano]

 

[Ted Striker]

This sign is up near it, amongst the 'missing' posters

 

[1%er]

There was one bit in the coverage where a camera shot up towards the sky, impossible to tell if it was something or nothing. There was also one bit where the idiot reporter asked a woman why the people were all down there. He was answered fairly robustly, but nobody even laid a finger on him. So, no, nothing I saw at least.

The reporter was talking about the police being kept in side-streets and then said the police horses are coming, it looks like a TV cameraman is being attacked by a number of people in the middle of the road

 

[Lurdan]

Oh lord, really?

I've not seen the detailing but if its as described it sounds like a proper dog's dinner.

A couple of things though. What was the insulation actually fixed back to? There must have been some sort of substrate, surely? Also the firebreaks (I can't believe I'm even talking about firebreaks on a building this high) wouldn't need to be in contact against the back the cladding. The whole principle of ventilated rainscreen is that there is a continual vented cavity, a firebreak would block this. Instead you'd have intumescents (expanding chemicals) in there to expand and block the cavity at the first sign of fire.

I queried the presence /performance of the inutumescents towards the start of this thread.

Also fucking mastic. If anyone is still using mastic (which has a design life of about 6 minutes) on facades in this era they need shooting.

I was wondering about whether the new windows contributed to making things worse. I was once liaison on a large window replacement contract but I don't have any technical expertise. I know PVCu is reasonably fire resistant but will warp and then melt if there is enough heat which clearly there was. Even before that facilitates fire getting in it will facilitate smoke access from the fire on the outside of the building.

There are windows on the stairs as well as in flats. The stairs were designed to be sufficiently free of smoke from a fire confined to a single flat for people to be able to get out but in practice they evidently filled up with toxic levels of smoke relatively quickly. My guess is that the effect of the fire outside on the windows will have significantly contributed.

I've seen a couple of interviews with people who lived on the upper floors who only got out through luck because of this. Beyond a certain point even advising people to get out rather than stay put wouldn't necessarily have helped them.

 

[Orang Utan]

This sign is up near it, amongst the 'missing' posters

can you please repost that full size? it's impossible to read

 

[Calamity1971]

There was one bit in the coverage where a camera shot up towards the sky, impossible to tell if it was something or nothing. There was also one bit where the idiot reporter asked a woman why the people were all down there. He was answered fairly robustly, but nobody even laid a finger on him. So, no, nothing I saw at least.

Yes I seen that, after the woman shot him down he turned to the camera and said 'as you can see emotions are boiling over' what he should have said is, 'as you can see I asked a really fucking stupid question there and I deserved that response'

 

[ska invita]

can you please repost that full size? it's impossible to read

 

[J Ed]

Seems like May is in a church which is surrounded by an angry crowd...

 

[killer b]

she's been run off now. it couldn't have gone any other way could it?

 

[bi0boy]

.

 

[planetgeli]

Dan, Dan the BBC man was asking for a smack with his line of interviewing a few minutes ago. Now he's disappeared. Coincidence? He did end up saying something along the lines of "this has opened up class divisions (my Marxism) which have been long buried". Yeah, buried by the likes of you, yer twat.

Oh, he's back. With added SWP banners. Noooooooooooooooo!

 

[hash tag]

tbh what will almost certainly have happened is staff able to leave the building will have been directed to go home.

That will help no one.

I heard this morning that a packaging company heard the appeal for cardboard boxes and immediately rushed over 700 of them to the centres!

I gather a few companies have chipped in with various contributions, companies I for one would not normally go near and fair play to them.
It is a disaster on a scale beyond anyones comprehension and anyone who chips in anything would surely be welcomed.

 

[ChrisD]

The guardian had a diagram pulled from the intial planning consent I think, which showed the detailing

I agree that's a crap detail but there's significant difference between planning drawings/consent and building regulations/working drawings consent. Planners are not concerned with fixing or fire stopping details.

For what it's worth I think the issue of panel A v. Panel B is irrelevant in the sense that if both satisfied the relevant regulations then most specifiers would choose the cheaper one. The potential fault lies with setting those standards which it seems uk lags behind other countries despite evidence from other fires indicating changes needed.

 

[Barking_Mad]

From the Squarkbox article:

This morning, Grime artist Saskilla told the BBC’s Victoria Derbyshire programme that he had been told personally by one of the firefighters at Grenfell Tower that around two hundred bodies had already been identified at the scene of the terrifying blaze. The presenter attempted to pour water on the figure, but the musician insisted it was what he was told.

 

[planetgeli]

For what it's worth I think the issue of panel A v. Panel B is irrelevant in the sense that if both satisfied the relevant regulations then most specifiers would choose the cheaper one.

Especially if it saved £5000 on a £10million budget and one was fire resistant and the other wasn't....and someone(s) appeared to be on a £1.4million backhander judging by the £10million £8.6million figures being thrown around.

Oh look. May's just offered a £5million bribe.

 

[DaveCinzano]

*Soz already posted*

 

[Lord Camomile]

Can't find any more info at present.

 

[J Ed]

How can someone who has to flee an enraged people continue as Prime Minister?

 

[DaveCinzano]

 

[belboid]

Oh look. May's just offered a £5million bribe.

One woman's crowdfunder collection has raised over a million, and Maggie May offers just another four. Pathetic. Their response is just so unbelievably crass and uninterested, it's fucking shocking. Even to a bitter middle aged cynic.

 

[DaveCinzano]

Can't find any more info at present.

Somewhat pathetic seeing as it doesn't even match the grass-roots ad hoc collections of cash, let alone the material or service donations, or the pledges from existing charities, unions and others.

 

[Lord Camomile]

Pointless question: this has done for May, but can/how do the Tory party get out of this? It's arguably their legacy from the past 7 years of austerity (plus their general history, obviously); is there any way they turn things around? Another war?

 

[maomao]

How can someone who has to flee an enraged people continue as Prime Minister?

Because literally no other fucker in her party wants it right now. She's got no fucking choice and if it wasn't for the deaths of so many people we'd all be rolling on the floor pissing ourselves laughing at her. She's a fucking joke.

 

[bimble]

Am I right in saying that what is going on now is spontaneous, and the organised protest is scheduled to start later?

i think so. Another (planned) one is at Home Office 2 Marsham Street .