Grenfell Tower fire in North Kensington - news and discussion

[pseudonarcissus]

No alarms? The poor people. Just horrendous.

with the "Stay put" policy there aren't audible alarms to trigger an evacuation.

 

[Pickman's model]

Probable death toll in the hundreds.

Like many other urbs I've lived in tower blocks. Could easily have been me in there. there will be a horrific death toll

 

[trashpony]

No central alarm system, no sprinkler system and only one staircase. How the fuck is that legal?

Horrific

 

[bi0boy]

A man on CNN saying he saw it from five miles away, went there immediately, barged past police and helped carry people out, managed to locate his cousin and nephew who were living on the 18th floor.

 

[Plumdaff]

with the "Stay put" policy there aren't audible alarms to trigger an evacuation.

 

[MrSki]

Too early to say but eye witness reports seem to say that the new cladding contributed to the fast spread of the fire. How the fuck can the cladding not be safe?

 

[Pickman's model]

When I lived in a tower block in Hackney I saw no fire alarms and only discovered a fire outside my door because of the smell of smoke. Think the absence of fire alarms quite widespread.

 

[Lurdan]

ACM is apparently aluminium composite material... Purely for reference purposes, making no judgment on whether the cladding was responsible, or could have been responsible.

That's the rain screen - as that page also says

All of Harley's rainscreen products come as a system, complete with carrier rails and brackets, and all necessary wall insulation and fire barriers

The descriptions of the work by the architects and the contractors refer to external insulation being fitted as well as these aluminium panels.

 

[May Kasahara]

Just horrendous I've never seen a tower block burn like that, it looks like it went up like a torch. Offering fervent good thoughts for everyone inside and the emergency crews involved.

 

[Sprocket.]

Too early to say but eye witness reports seem to say that the new cladding contributed to the fast spread of the fire. How the fuck can the cladding not be safe?

If it is aluminium based, as any metal ending in ium, it burns ferociously once ignited. I have seen horrendous fires where aluminium was involved.
How this material got past building controls needs investigation.

But that's for another day, our thoughts need to focus on the poor victims and their families.

 

[weepiper]

This is awful. Poor poor people.

 

[MrSki]

My thoughts are with the victims but sadly that won't be of any help.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

Goes beyond tragic, no words

 

[Plumdaff]

When I lived in a tower block in Hackney I saw no fire alarms and only discovered a fire outside my door because of the smell of smoke. Think the absence of fire alarms quite widespread.

It just makes me equally sad and angry that we live in a country where those in power don't find money for this.

 

[Dogsauce]

If it is aluminium based, as any metal ending in ium, it burns ferociously once ignited. I have seen horrendous fires where aluminium was involved.
How this material got past building controls needs investigation.

Could be due to it being external, may not need a fire rating then. Plenty of new builds around with timber cladding at the moment for example. Could be that it was installed according to regs, but there was some way that the fire bridged to the interior (unsurprising given windows would probably be open last night due to warm weather, curtains around windows and so on). Think this is an old block so it probably pre-dates a lot of the design changes that became standard after the Brazil fire (in that one the central stair core became a chimney for heat, smoke and fire preventing escape).

 

[teqniq]

 

[Lurdan]

Rydon the contractor who carried out the regeneration work seem to have removed the case study about it from their web site overnight. The page is still available at archive.org.

And so it begins.

 

[alsoknownas]

LBC just reported that the residents association of the building warned the landlords/owners of fire safety in a blog post.

KCTMO – Playing with fire! - Article referred to, not sure if I can post here so do remove if applicable.

 

[wiskey]

Added to the other issues about no integrated alarm system, and an inappropriate fire procedure there is going to be a criminal case from this. Some people are going to be very very worried today.

Worried?! If their shoddy building has killed people they should be doing all they can to make things better

 

[Treacle Toes]

Can't get my head around how terrifying this must have been for those poor poor people

Looking at the pictures and listening to the reports this morning made me throw up for exactly that reason.

 

[EastEnder]

No central alarm system, no sprinkler system and only one staircase. How the fuck is that legal?

There's only 8 flats in my building - which is over 100 years old - yet we've got internal fire alarms, a communal fire alarm system & automatic sprinklers in half the flats. For a 24 storey building with over 100 flats, this seems truly shocking...

 

[ElizabethofYork]

with the "Stay put" policy there aren't audible alarms to trigger an evacuation.

What's the point of the "Stay Put" policy?

 

[Lord Camomile]

Just utterly horrifying. All too easy to imagine it happening, but impossible to imagine what it would actually be like to be caught up in it.

Underneath the BBC article on this there is a link to one from 2013 after another tower block fire, which states that LFB were not visiting fire blocks on a regular basis for familiarisation ie to learn about building layout, fire escape locations etc.

At the risk of bringing politics into it, would that have anything to do with cuts to the fire services from a few years back?

 

[Lord Camomile]

What's the point of the "Stay Put" policy?

At a guess, avoid mass panic/stampedes?

 

[trashpony]

Copied from Mrs Magpie:

Attention West London people!

The residents who escaped Grenfell House only have the clothes they stand up in, mainly nightclothes at that. There is an urgent need for clothes to fit all ages, toiletries, toys etc. Please take donations to
St Clement's Church.
95 Sirdar Road,
London,
W11 4EQ

 

[wiskey]

What's the point of the "Stay Put" policy?

Because fires should be able to be tackled from inside the block of flats and the doors should give an hour or so of protection.

 

[EastEnder]

What's the point of the "Stay Put" policy?

Kinda sounds like the sort of policy you have in place when you've got nothing better to suggest...

 

[Steel Icarus]

Oh, that news reporter. Had to really compose herself when reporting some people saw children being thrown from windows in a desperate attempt to save them
This is so horrible. Poor, poor people

 

[EastEnder]

Oh, that news reporter. Had to really compose herself when reporting some people saw children being thrown from windows in a desperate attempt to save them
This is so horrible. Poor, poor people

Witnesses on the news talking about people jumping from halfway up the building...

 

[spirals]

Those poor people