mauvais
on reddit or something
Subletting a HA property (possibly only in its entirety) is a criminal offence, rather than the civil breach of contract you might expect it to be. Not sure how that plays into any of this.
Grenfell Tower fire in North Kensington - news and discussion
- Thread starter JTG
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Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Of course they'll be doing that but it takes a long time. An experienced firefighter was on LBC yesterday saying that by law they must identify remains before adding them to an official death toll. Given the intensity of the fire and the tendency for people, especially loved ones, to huddle together in such situations, the authorities will be finding piles of ashes and charred, disintegrated bones, so it's sometimes virtually impossible to be sure of even how many people's remains they are dealing with. Add to that the fact that there will have been people staying there that weren't the registered occupants and it's quite possible that the true death toll will never be known.
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Manter
Lunch Mob
I think there is a difference between the official emergency services process and the administrative process. An exact number may be impossible, but even the numbers that have been released are contradictory. Let the emergency services get on with the physical count in the building, but there is so much more that can be done to shed some light on this.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
You're the one claiming the government cares, not me.
If they care so much, explain to me why the lakanal recommendations weren't implemented.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Some light regarding numbers of dead, you mean?
Manter
Lunch Mob
Quite a few things tbh. But yes- dead, survivors, what is being planned for survivors (accommodation, trauma support, immigration, finances). We have journalists doing a lot of investigative work (notably the FT) while minutes of meetings and technical specs and so on disappear from the internet; and community activists compiling lists and providing support that should be in place from the authorities. Psych support for the firefighters is being run by volunteers, even. It just feels like a complete shambles.
crossthebreeze
Well-Known Member
Not just refugees doing this either (though I know its common among refugee communities). One of my (english) mates was living 3 families to a highrise council flat in London for a while about ten years ago because of homelessness, and the housing situation has obviously got loads worse since then. The government changed the law about 4 years ago so that council/housing associations can't stop people having lodgers (and therefore also people sofa surfing or whatever) except where flats/houses would become officially overcrowded (but they're only going to know that's the case if someone reports it to them, and even then might not be minded to do much), and under universal credit you don't have to declare income from lodgers so long as its under a certain amount. Where I live, getting a lodger gets pushed by housing associations/the council as a solution to the bedroom tax even.
Subletting proper (where the tenant has moved out) is illegal in social housing on the other hand, but of course it goes on. My first thoughts are that an overcrowded sublet in a highrise with one entrance would be spotted by the housing managers quite easily (more so than in some other types of housing), but obviously I don't live in London and don't know how proactive this council about subletting.
I don't know what you think is inconsistent about my position.
Criminals do care about getting caught but they may still try to get away with it.
Likewise, many of the conservatives are in the pockets of big business.
They care about mass demonstrations which have the potential to see them out of office, but they will push as far as they think they might get away with.
And if they can avoid those demonstrations with some media manipulation they'll do that where they can.
editor
hiraethified
Treacle Toes
Time
Vultures and arse coverers taking their seats...
Chairman of Government’s new Grenfell panel pushed ministers to cut fire service funding by £200m
Chairman of Government’s new Grenfell panel pushed ministers to cut fire service funding by £200m
Libertad
Sparking up a rollie in the Reichstag
Casual Observer
enough
Luke Barratt at Inside Housing is great. He/they are the only independent source (as far as I know) who covered the KCC/KCTMO shitshow at Grenfell Tower BEFORE the fire.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
here we go, operation longrass
editor
hiraethified
The more the government keep fucking this up, the quicker the tide will turn against them and the more the anger will rise.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
I honestly think that they're somewhat disappointed that rioting has not yet occurred giving them them the opportunity to discredit/slap down dissent.
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
IIRC that is what the Police side of the investigation is doing, but you really can't overstate how difficult that is going to be. The unaccounted for people are going to be those who aren't on record, who may not have liaised with local charities, who didn't use public services (for whatever reason), and if they were subletting its unlikely that the owner of the flat is going to have their real name, contact details etc; and that assumes the owner comes forward.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
This is going to be like the nonce inquiry where they got through about 3 discredited chairs before they could even start their work. Astonishing.
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Ah, yes!
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
If only. For all the failures in that Inquiry, at least they managed to never put in charge of it someone who would almost certainly be named and criticized for their serial failures in the final report.
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
David Clapson
Well-Known Member
Exactly. I've got an unregistered lodger at the moment. We've agreed she won't tell the council she lives here, or go on the electoral roll. None of the neighbours know her status. For all they know she's my girlfriend, not a resident. (I'm not a council tenant, my flat is owned by a private landlord.)
I used to live in a HA flat which the tenant had sublet to me. The mgmt and neighbours never asked who I was.
Some people go on the council flat waiting list with the intention of subletting as soon as they get a property. In Inner London the difference between the rent you pay the council and the achievable market rent is huge. It must be the easiest fraud in the book. The landlord has to give 24 hours' written notice to inspect the property and it doesn't matter if a 'friend' is the only person in during the inspection. The illegal residents can easily use a friend/relative's address for tax, banking and so on. AFAICS pretty much everything except parking permits can be organised via another address.
Manter
Lunch Mob
Tbf they aren't housing all the survivors. Some are going to charities like ours because their immigration status or general fear of the authorities mean they don't trust all the reassurances. (Justifiably considering the reassurances were withdrawn less than two days later.)
agricola I know it's difficult but 'official' numbers aren't even in the same ballpark as the numbers volunteers and activists are coming up with.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
Read the thread, or even some of the links on this page. It's been examined several times on the thread.
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
It is unlikely that all the survivor's will be applying for rehousing. Some will be afriad to come forward for one reason or another, and others will have juat sorted something out themselves rather than waiting.
Barking_Mad
Non sibi sed omnibus
Because then people can start doing maths, and maths *could* give answers. I just read this,
I, along with two other people (one of whom is a resident), have been collating information and I can confidently say the police need to get a shift on if they are missing that much information, as we have only 13 flats with no information (we do have four more that we don't have names of people for, but we are told they are all safe).
However I would say that our dead, presumed dead and missing total is almost exactly the same as the one put out in the above link, 80. We have 78 (although we've taken a couple of people out of the stats who might be deceased as we can't vouch for the accuracy of the data), so it could actually be identical.
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