BBC ON THIS DAY | 31 | 1990: Violence flares in poll tax demonstration
That was the end of Thatcher.
This could be the end of Thatcherism.
Grenfell Tower fire in North Kensington - news and discussion
- Thread starter JTG
- Start date
That was the end of Thatcher.
This could be the end of Thatcherism.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
oho you've edited.
the poll tax was the end of thatcher. the poll tax riot was not the end of thatcher.
Treacle Toes
Time
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Treacle Toes
Time
Pffft. Damage limitation.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Well yes, but what else could they do? The bloke's a knob.
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
Are they ok? They could well be racist as well but realise what bad PR the whole thing is, in a sense it doesn't matter. The whole thing is disgusting, especially when you think about the fact that residents reported racism as a component in why they were not listened to.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
is this a call for tea at the Ritz?
The edit was within 30 seconds, without seeing your post. I think the point is a pretty obvious one, tbh. The poll tax riot was the end of the poll tax. Spontaneous mass demonstrations are a big deal. A decent sized one would blow May over. This is precisely a scenario which could have produced something fairly big.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
The poll tax demonstration that ended in a riot in london was anything but spontaneous - and there isn't going to be anything happening that isn't already happening by adding a hundred to the official figures.
That is not my recollection. From wikipedia (doubtless, there are better sources)
Poll tax riots - Wikipedia
You can't apply for a riot
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
You can spend a year plus organising the conditions for it to happen. And many of us did.
cupid_stunt
Chief seagull hater & farmerbarleymow's nemesis.
If you want to discuss history, in respect of the poll tax & the associated demos & riots, please start a new thread & stop derailing this one, out of respect for the Grenfell victims & most people following this thread.
Thanks in advance.
The point is, mass demonstrations outside Downing St can and do have political impact. If public order starts falling apart that can be a very big deal.
If the death toll is indeed hundreds, and an accurate estimate was released in the day after the event, there would have been a real prospect of a poll tax riot situation. As it was there was a spontaneous demonstration which produced disorder in Kensington Town Hall, that was on a reported death toll of less than 20.
Well frankly, no, that's not correct. Higher than the 17 or so, but not 150+. People rely on information from authority in these situations. It was 'conspiracy theory' to suggest that the death toll was being kept low in the days after the event:
Death toll cover-ups, media blackouts and D-notices - the truth about the Grenfell conspiracy theories
Odd response. You can refer back to the first few pages of this thread if you want. The size of the block with the amount of homes in it combined with the ferocity of the fire and the limited ability for the fire service to fight it all clearly added up to a big death toll.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
no, the end of the poll tax was caused not by the riot but by the extent of non-payment. the end of the poll tax was announced in 1991 when bills were lowered by £140 (£136 in the case of wandsworth): while it would be good if the riots had ended the poll tax the simple fact of the matter is that mass working class action dealt the tax a knock-out blow.
as someone who was at all the national poll tax marches and active in haringey and camden throughout the poll tax, i think i might know something more of what went on than you do, being as you seem to be getting your information very much second - and perhaps third - hand.
anyway, that's ancient history, and we're meant to be talking of the murder of those killed in grenfell tower.
Which is precisely the point. There was no announcement as such from the emergency services reflected in the news reports, as one would expect to be the case.
Thatcher quit in November 1990.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
please get off your hobby horse about this. you can't know at any one time how many people are in houses on e.g. camden's queens crescent or westminster's elgin avenue or lambeth's coldharbour lane. similarly, you can't be sure how many people were in grenfell tower as it burned. given the extent and ferocity of the fire it's quite possible not so much remained of some bodies. what do you want, guesswork?
cupid_stunt
Chief seagull hater & farmerbarleymow's nemesis.
Thatcher didn't quit, she was forced out.
Having asked politely & been ignored, fuck off you loon.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
oh fuck off
I wouldn't expect the emergency services to speculate, I would expect them to get on with the job at hand and deal in facts that are known. Any other approach would be unprofessional.
MAD-T-REX
Well-Known Member
It's still a conspiracy theory.
Adding someone to an official death toll (even if their identity is unknown) is a controlled process to avoid fuck ups. During the Cumbria shootings, it took all day for an accurate figure to emerge and that was with a much smaller number of victims actually lying out on public roads.
The fire brigade were not just going to do a quick once over of the accessible parts of the building, which was on fire for more than a day remember, and blurt out a number. It wouldn't have helped anyone.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
As if he'd believe the emergency service anyway. They're usually in on it in his world.
(and that is my last on this crap)
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
If they cared, the recommendations that came from the lakanal tower fire would have been implemented several years ago without questions or delays.
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existentialist
Tired and unemotional
That isn't surprising.
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