Grenfell Tower fire in North Kensington - news and discussion
- Thread starter JTG
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Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
had a very poor rep before it was flats, when the dhss were there. interesting pdf: http://ruthewan.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/How-to-Make-Archway-Tower-Disappear.pdf
danny la rouge
I have a cheese grater in the dishwasher.
It may be 600, "Number 10" is now saying.
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
Sometimes it feels like we have gone back a century.
danny la rouge
I have a cheese grater in the dishwasher.
It really does.
Camden are taking down the cladding on some of their buildings immediately and putting 24 hour fire wardens on site while they do so.
Work was done by Rydon and Harley Facades, the same contractors as the Grenfell tower and Camden say that the cladding used was not the cladding that was specified.
Exclusive: Cladding to be removed from Camden blocks after tests reveal similarities with Grenfell Tower
Work was done by Rydon and Harley Facades, the same contractors as the Grenfell tower and Camden say that the cladding used was not the cladding that was specified.
Councillor Georgia Gould said:
Exclusive: Cladding to be removed from Camden blocks after tests reveal similarities with Grenfell Tower
Blimey. There's seem deeply worrying implications there. There is an almighty suggestion that Rydon and Harley have been up to no good. This could yet lead to corporate manslaughter. I'm genuinely staggered by some of the stuff coming out. I know that construction is a bit of bodge-it industry and there is a lot of corner cutting. I never expected anything quite as serious and cynical as this.
ChrisD
.
The basic design of this type of tower block relies on effective compartmentalisation and protection within each flat. Hence the single staircase and tragic advice to stay in flat unless advised otherwise. I don't think that width staircase will comply with means of escape required widths etc (rightly so after ibrox etc disasters) if all residents were to take to staircase at once.
Sprinkler systems installation (good for Croydon to propose) require all sorts of consideration re zoning and insurance for "what if your neighbour sets them off and ruins your stuff ". Yet somehow urgent solutions need to be found.
Have shares in rockwool gone up in the last week? I'm an architect (though I've never wished on tower blocks) and I feel collective guilt for the whole building industry except a few individuals like Sam Webb who have been pointing out these things for years.
If you get a close up photo of the new cladding I'll probably be able to tell if its an ACM panel.
bimble
floofy
Closeups from the architects in here GRID Architects | Archway Tower
I'll try taking pictures of the real thing when next there. (thanks)
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
more working class cohesion in 1917. And October of that year was quite special...
The CGI's look like they were proposing a GRC panel which would be a good thing as its a concrete based system. Test report here: http://telling.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Firetest-classification-report-grc.pdf
The problem is if the last week has taught us anything is that what the architect proposed and what was used are not always the same.
bimble
floofy
Yes, thanks. It looks plasticy in real life, the cladding, to a clueless eye anyway. But that place has very good internal fire prevention measures, as it seems it had to have by law as it went through 'significant change of use'. That makes so little sense to me - why does change of use mean you must install sprinklers etc, whilst total refurb whilst keeping same use doesn't.
Cid
Proper break this time
See this is a prime example of how architects sell a scheme which ends up looking nothing like the proposals.
First thoughts are that it is definitely not a cassette system as used at Grenfell and you can see loads of Rockwool so at least the insulation is completely non-combustible. It looks like a standard ventilated rainscreen but I can't see what the panel is.
It appears that at Greenfell they were combining many different products and fixing methods which in isolation may have been OK but used together in a system were a accident waiting to happen.
The system going on the wall in the google image is very different.
^ that looks dodgy as hell, says someone who knows nothing about cladding.
Nah don't worry about that, that's how rainscreen is fixed. The steel rails create a good fix and the ventilated cavity behind it. The yellow-ish insulation is Rockwool (which as the name suggests is made from rocks). The photo also shows the Tyvek membrane which is absolutely standard.
Looks like a textbook installation from what I can see.
Fucker probably got 1/4 of a million to do it as well.
pinkmonkey
2.4 hour party person
I worked for a corporation 20 years ago, we manufactured sporting goods and all employees who went to factories were given training in how to spot unsafe practices, be they stuff such as workers taking guards off machinery (you can work faster but injury is more likely), to checking that all hazardous materials were correctly labelled and stored, to fire safety. I had to do a course and pass an exam. And every time I visited I had to follow a listed procedure as part of my visit. I knew to check the extinguishers were there, they were in date, there was no rubbish being stored, all the safety signs were in place, lots of stuff, we all had to and as a result checks happened regularly, several times a year, with a proper health and safety audit carried out by the auditor once a year. Yes of course this is all because of pressure from from activism, the media reports about sweatshops. The thing is, it is being done. People are being forced to give a fuck.
We are treating our own council housing tenants with less care than a commercial corporation making garments in asia would treat their employees.
We are treating our own council housing tenants with less care than a commercial corporation making garments in asia would treat their employees.
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Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
it wasn't even his boss who said "go" but a minister who has no real business doing this sort of thing.
gosub
~#
The only reason I think of for resign rather than sacked is avoiding an unfair dismissal claim as with baby p. But you are probably right, these super annuated arseholes have no shame
May run out of Kensington again last night. 
Theresa May booed after visiting Grenfell Tower residents
Theresa May booed after visiting Grenfell Tower residents
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
May run out of Kensington again last night.
Theresa May booed after visiting Grenfell Tower residents
may being run out of kensington (an artist's impression)
gentlegreen
I hummus, therefore I am ...
The vile Melanie Phillips wades in on Newsnight to unintentionally remind us that May is relatively human compared to some ... (I haven't actually watched the video)
teuchter
je suis teuchter
To me it doesn't seem safe to assume that the same system with Rockwool instead of celotex would be OK. If it's the case that it was primarily the cladding that fuelled the fire - and it appears that when it does burn, it burns really hot - then it's possible that the Rockwool would quickly fry away to nothing, enhancing any chimney effect and exposing window frames etc.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Grenfell fire: 600 other tower blocks might have similar 'combustible' cladding, says Downing Street
Telegraph making a hash of explaining the technical details of the cladding.
No. The celotex was not the core of the cladding.
Telegraph making a hash of explaining the technical details of the cladding.
No. The celotex was not the core of the cladding.
Treacle Toes
Time
Any developments other than having to visit and reassure residents?
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