eskdave
failed lover
Me and Me Mates will grant you Numinous .
God and religion
- Thread starter frogwoman
- Start date
'numinous' just means the experience of awe, terror, surrender and acceptance of an unexplained but transcendent belief in some sort of divine force - often associated with ecstatics, sufis, and such, but also accessed through drugs, listening to music, art and so forth. It seems to be a deep yearning within the human psyche. Formulated by Rudolf Otto.
Personally, I do not recognise the existence of an over-arching divinity but am saddened by the frothing fury of Dawkins and other irate atheists - his absolute certainty and sneery attitude does not sound like a person of science...surely any scientist or philosopher should demonstrate a curiosity and willingness to observe, experiment and accept a hypothesis with as much relish as reaching a proof of theory. Dawkin's mind closed somewhere around the mid 90's and he is now that very thing he despises...although I think it fair to differentiate between formalised religion, with leaders who inteprete the meanings of sacred texts, creeds, and then subjugate the rest of us under divine law....and those strong yearnings for a spiritual connection with everything outside of ourselves. Not putting this very clearly but I am not inclined to scoff at people of faith...just at how that faith is expressed in regard to others.
I know people who sincerely believe in astrology and the like and although I think it is a ridiculous idea, it has surprising therapeutic utility inasmuch as it stands in as a way of talking about who we are and how we relate to others - in itself, quite a useful set of symbolic concepts. As with most things, it comes down to power relations - who has them and how they are used.
Personally, I do not recognise the existence of an over-arching divinity but am saddened by the frothing fury of Dawkins and other irate atheists - his absolute certainty and sneery attitude does not sound like a person of science...surely any scientist or philosopher should demonstrate a curiosity and willingness to observe, experiment and accept a hypothesis with as much relish as reaching a proof of theory. Dawkin's mind closed somewhere around the mid 90's and he is now that very thing he despises...although I think it fair to differentiate between formalised religion, with leaders who inteprete the meanings of sacred texts, creeds, and then subjugate the rest of us under divine law....and those strong yearnings for a spiritual connection with everything outside of ourselves. Not putting this very clearly but I am not inclined to scoff at people of faith...just at how that faith is expressed in regard to others.
I know people who sincerely believe in astrology and the like and although I think it is a ridiculous idea, it has surprising therapeutic utility inasmuch as it stands in as a way of talking about who we are and how we relate to others - in itself, quite a useful set of symbolic concepts. As with most things, it comes down to power relations - who has them and how they are used.
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So much conceited sneering at faith on this thread.people who seem to think they are superior of thinking merely because they don't believe in any deities. And they've probably done less actual thinking than many of the people they believe to be merely irrational twits
This website is extremely cynical and anti faith, there is no case for anyone with any belief system whatsoever on here. It is smiting and full of intolerance and spite, always been this way and is a very cynical and closed space. Some former posters and former alcoholics who dont even believe in God but found a kind of salvation through 12 steps are reluctant to post on here and help others, because of the cynicism they find here. That is a fact. And if the place were more openminded, and perhaps less contaminated by bigotry and sneeriness, maybe more lives could be saved.
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gentlegreen
I hummus, therefore I am ...
gentlegreen
I hummus, therefore I am ...
Being Urban, seeing you use that "Life of Brian"-ism made me read what you wrote a second time to see if you were taking the mickey.
right. you are one of the sneery lot. you dont get it at all.
gentlegreen
I hummus, therefore I am ...
So you were actually using that archaic verb as a device to suggest that atheists - or more precisely the anti-religious end up behaving just like those they oppose ?
Googling Urban suggests it's also used in computer games and other fantasy fiction - explaining why I may have jumped to the wrong conclusion (because that is not my world either )
I would hope you could broach the subject of 12 step programmes on Urban ...
Googling Urban suggests it's also used in computer games and other fantasy fiction - explaining why I may have jumped to the wrong conclusion (because that is not my world either )
I would hope you could broach the subject of 12 step programmes on Urban ...
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weltweit
Well-Known Member
I expect actually that Urban75 probably mirrors the views on religion of the general UK population.
Gromit
International Man of Misery
I am highly offended by that.
Urban75 is probably one of THE most open minded places on the Internet.
It's open minded on a variety of subjects.
Drugs
Sexuality
Gender
Football
It probably a lack of religious belief that allows them to be so open minded. Religions demand believe this, believe that. Homosexuality is wrong, contraception is wrong, abortion is wrong, Harry Potter is wrong, Dungeons and Dragons is wrong. It's all laid out for you, no need to think for yourself.
I'm proud that that Urban rejects close mindedness. It's one of the reasons it rejects religion.... And tories.
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This is true, but so what? there are believers on here too and no space for them at all.
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No one who had a religious belief would even bother posting, because their ideas are laughed and sneered at.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
You think there are no Urbans with any faith whatsoever?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Of course there are - and they frequently post about that faith (what is faith anyway, you must say a bit more than that if you're going to make it the central concept of religious belief). But you said that they both don't exist - having been scared off of posting here, and that they do exist and post here. So again, which of your two claims is true?
You don't address the dismissal of faith and mockery of it on here. Anyway, not engaging in this discussion. I'll leave you to it.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Wtf?
You really are, with these posts, demonstrating that the sort of uncritical don't attack faith (which i note you are reluctant or unable to talk about) position is really just the inversion of the crude sort of religion, ha ha ha posts we saw earlier and that you are ostensibly replying to. Or not.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
I think it's unpleasant to sneer at people's faith, but there is no such thing as the right not to have your beliefs or views sneered at. What would such a right consist of and why should it exist?
It's certainly not the case that people of faith do not post about their beliefs on here; they very much do. And indeed some people of faith have been known to sneer at atheists' views on here, for example by making assumptions about their position and trying to lump them together with a caricature of "hard line atheism". There are some long term theist posters on Urban, and I can think of a couple who are very sneery indeed about atheists.
But the same hold true: they can behave how they like. I began by tackling them, but got bored of it and now just avoid them.
Gromit
International Man of Misery
Don't you do drugs?
And promiscuity (sex with other than a husband)
Didn't you kiss a girl n you liked it?
Hashtag #youaintnocatholicsis
Oh for fuck's sake, you can't help yourself can you?
bimble
floofy
I really hope that's (still?) true.
Gromit
International Man of Misery
juis sui charlie
Its not so long ago that this country tried to stop The Life of Brian being shown in cinemas. In various councils at least.
bimble
floofy
Yep. Maybe (very much hope this is totally wrong) we just had a really brief window when we thought, all self congratulatory about it too, that nothing was sacred & everything could be said.
bimble
floofy
I skipped a few pages in the middle but..
What if the problem you're really talking about here isn't religious faith but the absence of doubt, curiosity & a little bit of humour. That's a combo not reserved for people who belong to any religious group. When people have none of those things they can become dangerous but maybe it's not just religious people who are prone to those sorts of losses.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
i do know from my own experience (and im not saying there definitely isnt a god, its something im still trying to figure out in my head) that religion can stop you thinking and asking questions though. like if your religious instead of "look at that beautiful sunset" it's always "look at that beautiful sunset THAT GOD MADE"
bimble
floofy
Sure. But I've met people who believe in stuff that I don't who were not like that at all, still able to be curious & evolve / question their own beliefs about the world etc.
Also plenty pf people around who are totally sure they are correct about everything and that people who disagree with them be damned who describe themselves atheists.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Sure. But I've met people who believe in stuff that I don't who were not like that at all, still able to be curious & evolve / question their own beliefs about the world etc.
Also plenty pf people around who are totally sure they are correct about everything and that people who disagree with them be damned who describe themselves atheists.
nah you're absolutely right, i'm just not sure the logical aspects of it make sense to me any more. i like the cultural stuff though.
bimble
floofy
Logic & Faith is like oil & water they just don't go together very well.
I grew up with a very unpalatable God though, the vindictive old testament tribal one - ‘Whoever touches the mountain is to be put to death.They are to be stoned or shot with arrows, No person or animal shall be permitted to live.’ (Exodus etc) .
so I 'lost my faith' when i was 12.
A good sunset still does it for me though.
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bimble
floofy
