God and religion

[gentlegreen]

Matthew 5:17 :-

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

The whole thing is a Roman confection of course.

 

[DotCommunist]

He had trouble getting to Damascus too!

if he were with us today I imagine his blind route to damascus would seem like a pleasant memory compared to travelling overground there now...

 

[killer b]

And Jesus is made to say that the old law stands.

made by who? did he have a rebellious shadow cabinet too?

 

[gentlegreen]

What I mean is that the fictional character is written that way.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

Why were 4 separate account of his life written? And what about the Acts of the apostles, and the letters? Are they fiction too?

 

[gentlegreen]

Why were 4 separate account of his life written? And what about the Acts of the apostles, and the letters? Are they fiction too?

Decades after the event - and there's the missing years

No contemporaneous records in any other context

 

[Santino]

Oh God

 

[gentlegreen]

Is he subscribed to Urban ?

 

[Sprocket.]

made by who? did he have a rebellious shadow cabinet too?

Don't know about any cabinets but he could knock out a fine set of dining chairs and occasional tables, allegedly!
His dad made cradles/mangers.

 

[DotCommunist]

made by who? did he have a rebellious shadow cabinet too?

well he did apoint a zealot for a disciple

 

[Sprocket.]

St. Peter definitely lived, I saw his crypt under his church in Rome a few years back.
Churches never tell fibs!

 

[Gromit]

St. Peter definitely lived, I saw his crypt under his church in Rome a few years back.
Churches never tell fibs!

Jesus once said this bread is heavenly. Thus began the legend of St Pita. The story has been twisted through the years transforming the miraculous flat bread into an human avatar of holy bread and eventually into an full human person.

Thats the Chinese whispers of religion for you.

 

[Gromit]

I love this! Can't understand how I've only just now seen it.

 

[butchersapron]

Not quite. He said that he was the fulfilment of the Law.

No he didn't.

Ffs

 

[Orang Utan]

there seem to be an awful lot of atheists cherry picking quotes from the bible just to prove that christians do it too.

 

[butchersapron]

Why were 4 separate account of his life written? And what about the Acts of the apostles, and the letters? Are they fiction too?

Why indeed. The same author who wrote acts wrote luke. This isn't any evidence of their truth. Only 6 of the letters are by Paul. Now what?

 

[ElizabethofYork]

Why were Paul and several other people writing letters about Jesus?

 

[butchersapron]

Why were Paul and several other people writing letters about Jesus?

What an odd question. Did you ever find Paul saying that he had met jesus within in those letters? Of course not, in fact in those letters he seeks to establish that his power (as opposed to the churches supposedly established by the disciples) comes precisely from never having met any material jesus but a direct one-to-one spiritual encounter.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

What an odd question. Did you ever find Paul saying that he had met jesus within in those letters? Of course not, in fact in those letters he seeks to establish that his power (as opposed to the churches supposedly established by the disciples) comes precisely from never having met any material jesus but a direct one-to-one spiritual encounter.

I know.

But as you correctly pointed out, only 6 of the letters are by Paul. So why were the other letter writers writing about Jesus?

 

[butchersapron]

I know.

But as you correctly pointed out, only 6 of the letters are by Paul. So why were the other letter writers writing about Jesus?

What are you attempting to establish with this question? That there were people who wrote about jesus in the first century?

 

[ElizabethofYork]

What are you attempting to establish with this question? That there were people who wrote about jesus in the first century?

I'm not trying to "establish" anything. I'm genuinely interested. Did Jesus exist? If not, why were different individuals writing about him? Some of whom claim to have known him.

 

[butchersapron]

I'm not trying to "establish" anything. I'm genuinely interested. Did Jesus exist? If not, why were different individuals writing about him? Some of whom claim to have known him.

You don't think for a second - as a practising christian - that jesus didn't exist.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

You don't think for a second - as a practising christian - that jesus didn't exist.

I sincerely don't know. I've had a huge crisis of faith recently. I'm genuinely interested in other peoples' opinions and how they came to them.

 

[danny la rouge]

I'm not trying to "establish" anything. I'm genuinely interested. Did Jesus exist? If not, why were different individuals writing about him? Some of whom claim to have known him.

I think Jesus existed. There is more than enough evidence to suggest there was a real Jesus. Rather more than for most 1st Century holy men from the Roman Empire's provinces.

*Accepting gospel accounts as evidence of his existence is not the same as accepting the veracity of all that is contained therein. We've discussed this several times, but I have book recommendations if anyone's interested.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

I'm interested in book recommendations!

 

[butchersapron]

I sincerely don't know. I've had a huge crisis of faith recently. I'm genuinely interested in other peoples' opinions and how they came to them.

Pretty safe to say that he existed (which doesn't entail endorsing any other beliefs connected to him and early christianity). But people writing letters saying that he existed (among other more fantastic claims) doesn't really constitute direct or conclusive evidence of anything other than a belief at the time that he existed. Of course, when placed alongside other indirect evidence then its possible to build a case.

 

[danny la rouge]

I'm interested in book recommendations!

Albert Schweitzer, the Quest for the Historical Jesus.
Robert Grant, an Historical Introduction to the New Testament.
David Boulton, Who on Earth Was Jesus?: The Modern Quest for the Jesus of History.

In a bit of a hurry atm, but can say a bit more about each later on if you like.

 

[Sprocket.]

I have been re reading books that I have not opened for years on the history of Christianity.
One article caught my eye about Luke and his writings.

Luke wrote the third and fifth chapters of the New Testament around 62CE according to scholars because he does not mention the martyrdom of Paul.
He is seen as a travelling companion of Paul as he writes in the first person using the word 'we' in several places.
Luke had a patron and it was he that needed Luke to show in the Gospel according to Luke that Jesus intended that his followers were good citizens of the Roman Empire.
At the time of Luke's writing early Christians were being held responsible for the destruction of Jerusalem, the Gospel was intended to show Christians as good, peaceful citizens and not revolutionaries in an effort to protect themselves from the ongoing onslaught against them.

 

[Sprocket.]

One of the better explanations for the losing of faith though is in Kevin Smith's Dogma. IMO.

''Faith is like a glass of water, when you are young the glass is little, so it's easier to fill.
As you get older the glass gets bigger, the same amount of liquid doesn't fill it anymore.
But periodically the glass has to be refilled.''

 

[Sprocket.]

I'm interested in book recommendations!

Karen Armstrong, The Bible, a Biography.