Foetal alcohol syndrome

[captainmission]

I wasn't quite sure what was driving the original story. Presumably the local authority had taken the kid into care - and whether the woman's drinking was classed as an offence had some bearing on who paid for his/her care?

The child is with a foster carer. The local authority bought a claim to the criminal injuries compensation authority on the child's behalf. This would be for a lump sum compensation payment made by the state. The CICA rejected the claim. The local authority appealed and first tier tribunal ruled in favour of the local authority. The upper tribunal quashed the first tier tribunals decision and the case now goes to the court of appeal.

The upper tribunals decision can be found here - http://www.osscsc.gov.uk/Aspx/view.aspx?id=4073

 

[Sasaferrato]

You've seen the argument from one side, mate, I've seen it from the other. Obviously our mileage is going to vary.

I suspect that both you and Blagsta are correct. Some ex-addicts do need constant support to remain clean, others don't.

As an ex-addict, who has supplies of both morphine and tramadol sitting untouched since I quit, I think that the prime factor is motivation. I wanted to quit, I'd been taking the drugs for extreme pain, and didn't need them any more after surgery. I couldn't get shot of them fast enough really. Having gone through the misery of withdrawal, I am not keen to be back in the same position.

However, I am in a stable environment, I'm employed and have a very supportive wife, whilst we're not rich, we're certainly not poor. In other words, I have every thing in place to help with withdrawal and and abstention. I know that a lot of addicts are not so fortunate. Even with support, withdrawal isn't easy, without it, it must be damn near impossible.

 

[Sasaferrato]

The main one being Kyle himself, the two-bob cunt.

Isn't he. I watch occasionally, in the hope that it will be the day when one of his 'clients' gives him a well deserved thumping.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Is it the difference between recovery and cure? That you can recover from an addition but even if you've been recovered for ages, it's still problematic saying that you've been "cured"?

I am both recovered and cured. I think that if you didn't take the drug recreationally, but from necessity, the outcome is likely to be better.

 

[8115]

I am both recovered and cured. I think that if you didn't take the drug recreationally, but from necessity, the outcome is likely to be better.

I think physical dependency is often only one factor in addiction. You might be right that the more factors are present, it can be more difficult.

 

[8115]

I am both recovered and cured. I think that if you didn't take the drug recreationally, but from necessity, the outcome is likely to be better.

I think a lot of definitions of addiction say "despite adverse consequences" so normal medical use may make you physically dependent but not technically addicted iyswim. I don't know about your circumstances obviously.

 

[Agent Sparrow]

Isn't he. I watch occasionally, in the hope that fill be the day when one of his 'clients' gives him a well deserved thumping.

Not condoning violence of course, but there was this...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ught-TV-presenter-making-resort-look-bad.html

(Sorry for DM link)

 

[tbtommyb]

We know that one in five pregnancies (current UK figures) will end in miscarriage regardless of any preventive steps taken, so it does seem rather too much like cases of males exerting power to constrain womens' choice.

Wow, I didn't realise it was so high. That is terrible. I always thought the 'wait twelve weeks before telling anyone' thing (as told by my mum, at least) was a bit weird, as if a woman who does have a miscarriage in that time should just keep it to herself.

 

[Thora]

Wow, I didn't realise it was so high. That is terrible. I always thought the 'wait twelve weeks before telling anyone' thing (as told by my mum, at least) was a bit weird, as if a woman who does have a miscarriage in that time should just keep it to herself.

If you have a miscarriage the last thing you want to do is have to unannounce your pregnancy on Facebook etc.

 

[tbtommyb]

If you have a miscarriage the last thing you want to do is have to unannounce your pregnancy on Facebook etc.

I was thinking of with close friends etc, I guess most women would tell people in stages?

 

[aqua]

Wow, I didn't realise it was so high. That is terrible. I always thought the 'wait twelve weeks before telling anyone' thing (as told by my mum, at least) was a bit weird, as if a woman who does have a miscarriage in that time should just keep it to herself.

It's thought it's actually between 1:3 or 1:4 with most happening before anyone has realised they were pregnant. It's only a miscarriage until 24 weeks when it becomes a still birth (as after 24 weeks is classed as a viable pregnancy)

 

[aqua]

If you have a miscarriage the last thing you want to do is have to unannounce your pregnancy on Facebook etc.

Nothing like it in person

 

[Agent Sparrow]

And then I've read that the rate of chemical pregnancies (ie conception with no implantation) is as high as 80%!

 

[Thora]

I was thinking of with close friends etc, I guess most women would tell people in stages?

Well yes, generally I think most people wait til the 12 week scan before telling anyone they aren't close to.

 

[aqua]

And then I've read that the rate of chemical pregnancies (ie conception with no implantation) is as high as 80%!

No one can really say for sure but most are thought to be genetic errors so the body never keeps them.

The whole pregnancy thing is sodding complicated.

In response to the OP the issue to me is about support to those mums with alcohol issues when they're pregnant. Actually that can be widened to those with any mental health and addictions issues. We don't support mums to be, we attempt to control. It doesn't work.

 

[Sasaferrato]

late abortion is often presented as 'irresponsibility' but the reality is that it's usually done over fairly serious abnormalities or medical probolems, or where she didn't have access to abortion services earlier (location and finance is most common in the US, but a controling/abusive relationship can also be a factor here), or perhaps didn't know they were pregnant. and yes, I think it is possible to get to over 5 months without knowing. I didn't know until halfway through, on my third pregnancy. had I not done it twice before, I'd not have realised for longer.

condeming late abortion usually means having a go at someone who is either absolutely desperate, or is loosing a pregnancy they actually wanted.

fucking think will you.

I think you are a little confused as to what late abortion actually is, nonetheless, I do agree with you. It is a relatively rare procedure, which is never done without compelling cause.

 

[toggle]

I think you are a little confused as to what late abortion actually is, nonetheless, I do agree with you. It is a relatively rare procedure, which is never done without compelling cause.

am I? then perhaps you could offer me some enlightenment.


Is there something you can teach me that I didn't learn through the research I did and the discussions with the consultant who offered termination in my third trimester?

 

[cantsin]

No, of course not. In that circumstance, then the needs of the mother are paramount. I can understand why a woman who has been raped (a vile crime), would not wish to carry the child to term, nor should they be forced to.

As I said, I would rather that abortion didn't happen. That is a personal view. I do not support, financially, or in any any other way, any organisation that campaigns to make abortion illegal under any circumstance. It is up to the woman to make her own choice.

I've never come accross anyone that 'would rather abortion DID happen "?

For the record, my mum (dry for 20 yrs) is convinced my (living) brother has been challenged all his life by FAS - she was a full blown alchy taken taken by surprise by the pregnancy at the time.

 

[ViolentPanda]

It's thought it's actually between 1:3 or 1:4 with most happening before anyone has realised they were pregnant. It's only a miscarriage until 24 weeks when it becomes a still birth (as after 24 weeks is classed as a viable pregnancy)

The 1:5 figure I quoted was for "discernable" miscarriage, so I suspect your figures are probably more reflective of a rounded ratio.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Stuff like this

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...ancy-mother-forced-pay-child-damages-drinking

gets me goat.

I can't understand that, if "learning difficulties and an inability to connect emotionally with their peers" is one of the factors used to identify this 'disease', why aren't we inundating the state with claims based on the similar / worse symptoms thanks to poverty and the like?

And where's the focus on the alcohol consumption of partners, which surely has a clearer link to bad times for a child than a mum having a few? And getting paranoid about how much is too much, being seen as irresponsible etc so ending up having nothing, based on what are probably shakey and poorly reported medical opinions.

Are you actually denying that FAS is a real condition?

 

[Sasaferrato]

The 1:5 figure I quoted was for "discernable" miscarriage, so I suspect your figures are probably more reflective of a rounded ratio.

I don't think that anyone knows the absolute figure on that, but 1:3 is probably accurate. Many 'pregnancies' end with a menstrual period which is just a bit heavier than the norm.

 

[purves grundy]

Are you actually denying that FAS is a real condition?

No, I'm asking for a perspective on the relationship between alcohol and infants / children / growth that is a bit more honest about where the real problems are. We seem to focus on the personal responsiblity of the mother above all else, losing sight of the more harmful and more prevalent relationships between alcohol and kids.

 

[Sasaferrato]

but, as any fan of the TV show 'mad men' knows, the evidence about smoking being harmful was around since the early sixties and common knowledge not long after.

Ummmm... Forty years back, information on anything was not so easily got as it is now. Our GP, who smoked during consultations certainly didn't mention it, nor do I recall any of the health leaflets in the surgery mentioning it. Forty years ago, the debate on smoking causing lung cancer was still ongoing (although most people had got the message, whilst choosing to ignore it). It is easy to state that something was known then, it probably was, but dissemination took a long time then. There is a difference between a general knowledge of 'harmful', and the specific knowledge that smoking had an adverse effect on the foetus.

 

[Sasaferrato]

I think a lot of definitions of addiction say "despite adverse consequences" so normal medical use may make you physically dependent but not technically addicted iyswim. I don't know about your circumstances obviously.

Yep. I would agree with that.

I wasn't taking tramadol and morphine for fun, I was taking it for debilitating pain.

This will sound odd, but the main reason I wanted shot of the morphine, was to have my normal bowel habit restored. My bowel never got used to morphine, even after a couple of years of using it. The joy of being able to have a crap without industrial quantities of laxatives was bliss.

 

[8115]

Yep. I would agree with that.

I wasn't taking tramadol and morphine for fun, I was taking it for debilitating pain.

This will sound odd, but the main reason I wanted shot of the morphine, was to have my normal bowel habit restored. My bowel never got used to morphine, even after a couple of years of using it. The joy of being able to have a crap without industrial quantities of laxatives was bliss.

I'm so happy for you

 

[Sasaferrato]

am I? then perhaps you could offer me some enlightenment.


Is there something you can teach me that I didn't learn through the research I did and the discussions with the consultant who offered termination in my third trimester?

Late term abortion has a specific meaning in the medical world. How do I post a picture with a blocker? I do not want to post without it, as there would be howls of outrage, nor do I want to describe the process for the same reason.

 

[Sasaferrato]

I'm so happy for you

Sarky git! (Or not, as the case may be. )

 

[Frances Lengel]

Late term abortion has a specific meaning in the medical world. How do I post a picture with a blocker? I do not want to post without it, as there would be howls of outrage, nor do I want to describe the process for the same reason.

Put it in tags like this

Spoiler: unpleasant spectacle/poor taste/whatever you want to put

put the actual pic here

The spoiler equals bit, put whatever you want after the = sign, just put NSFW, that's the easiest.

E2a

Spoiler: NSFW

then put the pic

 

[Frances Lengel]

then put [/spoiler]

 

[spanglechick]

Ummmm... Forty years back, information on anything was not so easily got as it is now. Our GP, who smoked during consultations certainly didn't mention it, nor do I recall any of the health leaflets in the surgery mentioning it. Forty years ago, the debate on smoking causing lung cancer was still ongoing (although most people had got the message, whilst choosing to ignore it). It is easy to state that something was known then, it probably was, but dissemination took a long time then. There is a difference between a general knowledge of 'harmful', and the specific knowledge that smoking had an adverse effect on the foetus.

all i can tell you is what my mum says she was told but her doctors etc. she was a young mum with no qualifications or professional training at that point (ten years later she trained to be a social worker), and yet still she says that by 1970 at least, she knew she was supposed to give up smoking during pregnancy - because that's the only time she managed it until she was much older. perhaps your wife's doctor didn't tell her about it, but that doesn't mean he didn't know and that it wasn't common medical advice given to women by the mid seventies, when she was pregnant.