Alcohol prices + combatting binge drinking

[Puddy_Tat]

i don't think that's entirely the case, given that back in the early 90s about a third of the price of a pint went in duty and i'm assured it's much the same now.

and I don't think the duty is different depending on whether you buy booze in a pub or an off-licence. There will be more VAT on a pint in a pub than a pint-ish in a can, but VAT's based on the sale value.

I have had it suggested today that supermarkets generally sell cheap booze as a loss-leader. if that's true, I feel faintly uneasy about it, but don't see what this law (if of course it happens) is going to do a lot other than increase retailers' profit margins on cheap booze and lead to more people making / buying dodgy booze...

 

[Pickman's model]

No, I don't think so. Intially they will look expensive compared to the established brands but then the price of those will just creep up to re-establish the price gap. Shops charge on what they think they can get away with, if your consumer knows that Kirov Vodka is the cheapest by a few quid then the shops will continue this, the cost of everything will go up. Its a win - win for the pennyless good souls at Tesco.

kirov's always struck me as a strange name for a brand of vodka

 

[JHE]

Oi JHE! 'Normal people!' I just had a go at Pickman's Model but I meant it for you!

Even in bibulous Britain it's normal not to be addicted to alcohol.

 

[Buckaroo]

kirov's always struck me as a strange name for a brand of vodka

Viborg always struck me as a strange name for a brand of cheap lager until 'Kronsdadt'!

 

[Pickman's model]

Someone addicted to alcohol and so whose drinking behaviour - at least once they've started - is less voluntary (and so less sensitive to price changes) that that of normal people.

pls supply your evidence for claim re price changes.

 

[8115]

There was an article in the Guardian a while ago about a wet hostel for people who drink heavily in London. I think it was about minimum pricing. Anyway, I was never against it and the article more convinced me to agree.

I think minimum pricing is still fairly low (the news said 83p for a can of 4% lager, £4.50 for a bottle of wine), and even people buying the cheapest drinks won't be paying much more under minimum pricing unless they are very heavy drinkers. And, that's basically the point.

 

[Frances Lengel]

The people who will be worst affected by this pernicious nonsense are less financially well off alcoholics - Who I don't class as binge drinkers anyway.

And the thought that people going out on the town getting hammered over the weekend is somehow a social problem shouldn't even be entertained.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I think minimum pricing is still fairly low (the news said 83p for a can of 4% lager, £4.50 for a bottle of wine), and even people buying the cheapest drinks won't be paying much more under minimum pricing unless they are very heavy drinkers. And, that's basically the point.

My guess is that if it is brought in and it doesn't have much effect, the response will be to put it up. There will certainly be pressure groups calling for it to be put up.

 

[Pickman's model]

There was an article in the Guardian a while ago about a wet hostel for people who drink heavily in London. I think it was about minimum pricing. Anyway, I was never against it and the article more convinced me to agree.

I think minimum pricing is still fairly low (the news said 83p for a can of 4% lager, £4.50 for a bottle of wine), and even people buying the cheapest drinks won't be paying much more under minimum pricing unless they are very heavy drinkers. And, that's basically the point.

i think what you're trying to say is that the more you buy the more you pay. which, in all honesty, isn't really news.

 

[Buckaroo]

Even in bibulous Britain it's normal not to be addicted to alcohol.

Well you'd think so but given the hype there's obviously a 'drink' problem and I'm just interested if the problem is defined as one which affects rich people in a different way to poor people. The 'binge' drinking thing seems to be focussed on a certain class with a 'If you can afford to be a pisshead and deal with the consequences' attitude then it's ok, you're 'normal' and if you can't then you're a problem. What I mean is, is it normal not to be addicted to alcohol unless there's a problem?

 

[weltweit]

So £4.38 minimum for a bottle of wine.

But who will get the extra profit? The retailer? The wholesaler? The bottler? The grower?

 

[Pickman's model]

So £4.38 minimum for a bottle of wine.

But who will get the extra profit? The retailer? The wholesaler? The bottler? The grower?

tescos. every little helps.

 

[8115]

Well you'd think so but given the hype there's obviously a 'drink' problem and I'm just interested if the problem is defined as one which affects rich people in a different way to poor people. The 'binge' drinking thing seems to be focussed on a certain class with a 'If you can afford to be a pisshead and deal with the consequences' attitude then it's ok, you're 'normal' and if you can't then you're a problem. What I mean is, is it normal not to be addicted to alcohol unless there's a problem?

Someone from the Sheffield centre who have done a lot of research on this, said "the most problematic drinkers are the people who drink the cheapest alcohol". That is why. This measure is not about all heavy drinkers, it's not about people who drink ten pints on a saturday night and fall over, it's about people who die at 30/40 years old having drunk themselves to death. When they say problem drinking they really really mean, problem drinkers, young drinkers, street drinkers, etc.

So, I see what you mean about, it's ok for the rich but not the poor but I think in this case there is some quite solid research behind it.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

"the most problematic drinkers are the people who drink the cheapest alcohol"

You might just as easily say that the most problematic drinkers are the poorest drinkers.

 

[8115]

You might just as easily say that the most problematic drinkers are the poorest drinkers.

Fair enough.

I mean, maybe minimum pricing isn't the right way to deal with the problem. But I don't feel people have some sort of right to alcohol. If this worked it would be quite a neat and simple solution.

 

[Pickman's model]

But I don't feel people have some sort of right to alcohol.

why not?

If this worked it would be quite a neat and simple solution.

do you think complex societal problems have neat and simple solutions?

 

[8115]

why not?do you think complex societal problems have neat and simple solutions?

Like seatbelts?

Sometimes they do. Not complete solutions, but sometimes society does things, and you think, yeah, that was obvious.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I don't feel people have some sort of right to alcohol. .

I think people do. I think people should be able to expect an income that gives them the option of drinking alcohol if they so wish.

 

[Buckaroo]

Someone from the Sheffield centre who have done a lot of research on this, said "the most problematic drinkers are the people who drink the cheapest alcohol". That is why. This measure is not about all heavy drinkers, it's not about people who drink ten pints on a saturday night and fall over, it's about people who die at 30/40 years old having drunk themselves to death. When they say problem drinking they really really mean, problem drinkers, young drinkers, street drinkers, etc.

So, I see what you mean about, it's ok for the rich but not the poor but I think in this case there is some quite solid research behind it.

Ok I'm with you on this in terms of extremes. Let's start there at the extremes. I have worked with people who have drank themselves to death at a young age and many people who were on the way. With good support a lot of people can be helped and turn their lives around but this is the extreme. The focus of recent attention is on media hype, city cctv, social documentary and Alcogeddon media falaffel. Cheap alcohol means cheap drunks for sure but if taxation without representation is bullshit then taxation without social support is worse. In the last few days there hasn't been a word about social support and education, just some moralising about good and bad drunks and 'normal' people. What is needed is specialised, professional support not talk about taxation and personal morality which is what the the fuckers do every time they get a sniff. So they can fuck off with their research, lecturing, nagging bullshit. Irony is they're all pissed when they're at it.

 

[junglevip]

This will be an amazing boon for smugglers.

There will be a vacuum created by the exit of the legit sellers. I wonder who will fill the gap in the market, probably the nice people that dont want easy profit

 

[Pickman's model]

Like seatbelts?

Sometimes they do. Not complete solutions, but sometimes society does things, and you think, yeah, that was obvious.

no, not like seatbelts. I'm talking about neat and simple solutions to complex societal issues

 

[8115]

Shit governments are right once a parliament.

 

[Pickman's model]

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Shit governments are right once a parliament.

are you pissed?

 

[Pickman's model]

are you pissed?

8115 refers to his average annual alcohol intake in units

 

[Corax]

8115 refers to his average annual alcohol intake in units

Lightweight.

 

[Pickman's model]

Lightweight.

I quite agree.

 

[stuff_it]

Yep. There are normally laws against this kind of thing - cartels fixing prices.

Indeed: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/9710062/EU-warning-on-minimum-drink-pricing.html

 

[Ax^]

So what else was going on when this bullshite was being released..

 

[Nylock]

Maybe this idea getting airtime again?