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Fate of EU citizens in the UK post Brexit

Spymaster said:
What reason was your friend’s mum given for this? What you describe sounds effectively like having their citizenship revoked. This can only be done by the Home Secretary in exceptional circumstances.

Or had she been misbehaving?
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Its the hostile environment.

What was OK years ago has been tightened up.

To her it felt like having her citizenship removed.

Fortunately for her she is Irish so had right to stay. But had to apply for Eire passport.

This kind of thing has happened to relative of Black British friend of mine. Also to Black British friend of mine who tried to renew their passport few years back. They had no trouble getting one in first place. When it came to renewing it they were asked for more documentation to prove right to be here.

I don't think you understand. Bureaucracy is not a fixed thing. It changes over time. The Hostile environment wasn't necessarily about changing laws in parliament. It was about changing how the officials operate.

Why some of my East European friends don't trust the settled status scheme long term.

My Spanish partner reckons it will be alright as Spain has lots of UK people resident in it so this government or any future government won't try it on in future with Spaniards resident here. Trusting ones status on this is not a good state of affairs.
 
Gramsci said:
Its the hostile environment.

What was OK years ago has been tightened up.

To her it felt like having her citizenship removed.

Fortunately for her she is Irish so had right to stay. But had to apply for Eire passport.

This kind of thing has happened to relative of Black British friend of mine. Also to Black British friend of mine who tried to renew their passport few years back. They had no trouble getting one in first place. When it came to renewing it they were asked for more documentation to prove right to be here.

I don't think you understand. Bureaucracy is not a fixed thing. It changes over time. The Hostile environment wasn't necessarily about changing laws in parliament. It was about changing how the officials operate.

Why some of my East European friends don't trust the settled status scheme long term.

My Spanish partner reckons it will be alright as Spain has lots of UK people resident in it so this government or any future government won't try it on in future with Spaniards resident here. Trusting ones status on this is not a good state of affairs.
Click to expand...
I remember being on Whitehall during the student protests and experienced activists assuring me the cops wouldn't kettle people there. So your Spanish partner should be wary of 'they wouldn't do this', all too often they will do just that. If the government will go for something so stupid as the form of brexit they negotiated, if they will unapologetically kill tens of thousands of people with their fucked up covid policies, then basing they wouldn't do that on loads of aging UK people in Spain seems to me over-optimistic
 
Gramsci said:
Talking of passports East European friend of mine has gone all the way to get British Passport/ citizenship.

She finally got it. Its not cheap or easy. You have to pass an exam in Britishness. I saw some of the book she had to learn from and its embarrassing. Makes out this is great Liberal freedom loving country. Her experience of the run up to to the EU referendum and the Brexit vote somewhat changed her mind about this country.

When she first came her she was glad to be somewhere less conservative socially than her own country in Eastern Europe. The referendum and Brexit vote changed her perception of this country.

When she was granted her new citizenship of this country she told me she now is citizen of two racist countries.

She went the whole hog as her life is here now.

But her story makes me ashamed of this country.

All the posts here about how the form filling is not that difficult. Its just remoaners making a fuss. This forgets what it feels like for many East and Southern Europeans to have to apply to stay in a country they had thought they originally had right to live in.

Not everything is about whether the bureaucracy is difficult or not.

Though to add my friend was aware of the Windrush generation and didn't trust the settled status system long term. Which I feel is not being paranoid.
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Big of her to slum it here with all us racists. Hopefully the little perks like free medical treatment for life will offset the shame of having to rub shoulders with us
 
hot air baboon said:
Big of her to slum it here with all us racists. Hopefully the little perks like free medical treatment for life will offset the shame of having to rub shoulders with us
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Medical treatment is paid for from taxation. Most immigrants pay tax. It’s not free. It’s not a gift bestowed by the beneficent (white) rich English people.

The concept of the Life in the U.K. test is ok. I’m an immigrant and I’m interested in the history and culture of the country I’m living in.
The concept of an English language requirement is fine as well.

It’s the implementation that is hostile. Unless you have first-hand experience of it you really have no idea what it is like.

You don’t understand the rights you have lost. Like the right to fall in love with someone of a different nationality and to live together in your home country without a horrific bureaucratic process.
 
Spymaster said:
No. Just click "start now". I've just done it and ordered my BC.

View attachment 280439


Maybe I just got lucky.

The service announcement referred to is about delays in processing due to C19.
Click to expand...

Was the dob prior to 1957 or after 2005?
Underneath the corona announcement it states
“ Online Indexes
We are currently undertaking a rolling programme to put more of our indexes online. Birth indexes from 2005 to 2020 are now available to view. We will notify you when any further indexes are added.”
So you are forced to use the bmd archive
 
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Boris Sprinkler said:
Was the dob proper to 1957 or after 2005?
Underneath the corona announcement it states
“ Online Indexes
We are currently undertaking a rolling programme to put more of our indexes online. Birth indexes from 2005 to 2020 are now available to view. We will notify you when any further indexes are added.”
Click to expand...

No. 1967.

I used the standard service. I think perhaps you’ve misunderstood. That reads to me that you can’t view the records online or download them. It doesn’t mean you can’t apply for and receive a paper copy.
 
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Gramsci said:
Its the hostile environment.

What was OK years ago has been tightened up.

To her it felt like having her citizenship removed.

Fortunately for her she is Irish so had right to stay. But had to apply for Eire passport.

This kind of thing has happened to relative of Black British friend of mine. Also to Black British friend of mine who tried to renew their passport few years back. They had no trouble getting one in first place. When it came to renewing it they were asked for more documentation to prove right to be here.

I don't think you understand. Bureaucracy is not a fixed thing. It changes over time. The Hostile environment wasn't necessarily about changing laws in parliament. It was about changing how the officials operate.

Why some of my East European friends don't trust the settled status scheme long term.

My Spanish partner reckons it will be alright as Spain has lots of UK people resident in it so this government or any future government won't try it on in future with Spaniards resident here. Trusting ones status on this is not a good state of affairs.
Click to expand...
Yeah, ok. Bit what reason did they give for not renewing the passport?
 
Spymaster said:
Yeah, ok. Bit what reason did they give for not renewing the passport?
Click to expand...

Kind of thought I'd given you the reason. This problem with renewing UK passports has happened to one person I know personally and one whose Mother was refused renewal last years since Theresa May's Hostile environment.

They hadn't been involved in any criminal activity if that's what your asking.

The one I know personally was refused renewal until they provided further documentation to prove right to be here. Fortunately her Father kept everything and had the paper document required. Luckily for her and her kids. Cost her a missed holiday. Previous to this she'd not had a problem.
 
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brogdale said:
Passport tales, eh?

When my Mrs had her passport stolen at the Gard du Nord, we had to go to the Rue du Faubourg Saint-Honoré to see Tarquin to get a ETD/"emergency passport" to get her back home. Trouble was, to get to the fucking doorbell we had to pass though a post-Sands Republican sympathy protest...ended up with an armed diplo-protection Gendarme sticking the muzzle of his machine gun into my midriff yelling pourquoi exactement into my (then pretty terrified) face.

Of course, once inside it was all tea, biscuits and portraits of Brenda and the thing I most remember was when she'd finally got the papers asking Tarquin where the nearest Metro station was and him not really grasping the concept of public transport.
Click to expand...
passport tales
the 4th time I went through southampton immigration with my freshly expired french passport (still valid for 6 month as proof of ID) a few weeks after 9/11 I was told in quite short words that "you won't get in next time", that's after I had to take my shoes off to prove there weren't any "explosives" in there...
Gramsci said:
Talking of passports East European friend of mine has gone all the way to get British Passport/ citizenship.

She finally got it. Its not cheap or easy. You have to pass an exam in Britishness. I saw some of the book she had to learn from and its embarrassing. Makes out this is great Liberal freedom loving country. Her experience of the run up to to the EU referendum and the Brexit vote somewhat changed her mind about this country.

When she first came her she was glad to be somewhere less conservative socially than her own country in Eastern Europe. The referendum and Brexit vote changed her perception of this country.

When she was granted her new citizenship of this country she told me she now is citizen of two racist countries.

She went the whole hog as her life is here now.

But her story makes me ashamed of this country.

All the posts here about how the form filling is not that difficult. Its just remoaners making a fuss. This forgets what it feels like for many East and Southern Europeans to have to apply to stay in a country they had thought they originally had right to live in.

Not everything is about whether the bureaucracy is difficult or not.

Though to add my friend was aware of the Windrush generation and didn't trust the settled status system long term. Which I feel is not being paranoid.
Click to expand...
A german friend of mine who arrived a few weeks before me in the UK got her citizenship a few weeks back for the same reason, I probably would apply but can't afford it so will have to deal with whatever changes may come when they do happen.
 
Gramsci said:
Kind of thought I'd given you the reason. This problem with renewing UK passports has happened to one person I know personally and one whose Mother was refused renewal last years since Theresa May's Hostile environment.

They hadn't been involved in any criminal activity if that's what your asking.

The one I know personally was refused renewal until they provided further documentation to prove right to be here. Fortunately her Father kept everything and had the paper document required. Luckily for her and her kids. Cost her a missed holiday. Previous to this she'd not had a problem.
Click to expand...
Ok, so the person you know, actually did get their passport renewed after providing additional documentation. What about the mother of your friend? What was the reason for refusal given to her? They didn’t say “we’re not renewing your passport as part of Theresa May’s hostile environment” did they?
 
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Spymaster said:
Ok, so the person you know actually did get their passport renewed after providing the required documentation. What about the mother of your friend? What was the reason for refusal given to her?
Click to expand...

I'm finding your attitude somewhat irritating.

So my friend did get their passport renewed. You think it was OK she had to through that?
 
Gramsci said:
I'm finding your attitude somewhat irritating.

So my friend did get their passport renewed. You think it was OK she had to through that?
Click to expand...
I’m sorry you’re finding it irritating but it’s important. I also hold an Irish passport as well as a British one. So do others that I know. Are we at risk of not getting our Brit ones renewed too?

As far as your friend is concerned, I don’t know what they went through or if it was ok. So far you’ve said they were asked for additional documentation, provided it, and got the passport. To make a call on whether that was ok, we’d need to know why they were asked. My guess is that something else they provided was deficient or it was some kind of random enhanced procedure, or maybe a requirement change between them getting the first passport and the second.

Your friend’s mum’s situation sounds extraordinary so I’m simply asking what she was told. I’m not questioning your honesty but I don’t think your friend (or his mum) have passed on the full facts.
 
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Spymaster said:
I’m sorry you’re finding it irritating but it’s important. I hold an Irish passport as well as a British one. So do others that I know. Are we at risk of not getting our Brit ones renewed too?

As far as your friend is concerned, I don’t know what they went through or if it was ok. So far you’ve said they were asked for addition documentation, provided it, and got the passport. To make a call on whether that was ok, we’d need to know why they were asked, my guess is that something else they provided was deficient.

Your friend’s mum’s situation sounds extraordinary so I’m simply asking what she was told. I’m not questioning your honesty bu I don’t think your friend, or his mum, have passed on the full facts.
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Its called the Hostile environment. You're falling for it. If someone is asked for more info you (not we) don't have an issue with it. There must be some reason I haven't tried hard enough to find. I've explained that this person had no problems before.

On my friend with Irish mother. That's what he told me. I don't know more. She was born in Eire but spent her life here.
 
Gramsci said:
Its called the Hostile environment. You're falling for it. If someone is asked for more info you (not we) don't have an issue with it. There must be some reason I haven't tried hard enough to find. I've explained that this person had no problems before.

On my friend with Irish mother. That's what he told me. I don't know more. She was born in Eire but spent her life here.
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Ok. :hmm:
 
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An EU national friend of a colleague at work recently travelled abroad to see her family- the first time out of the UK since Brexit. Despite having full settled status (20 years living here, British husband and children, mortgage, job, the lot...) she had a bit of a palaver trying to clear immigration at the airport when she returned. She happened to have renewed her passport since her settled status was approved, and apparently that is too much for the Home Office to handle, so the computer kept saying settled status not confirmed. Eventually they worked out the issue, and said she needed to have registered the new passport with The Man before travelling.

So a tip to anyone else who might have renewed their passport since settling: you better let Patel and her Stasi border police immigration officers know your new passport details before travelling.

Ain't Brexit a fresh of fresh air :)
 
important case
www.theguardian.com

Home Office sued by watchdog set up to protect post-Brexit rights of EU citizens

Statutory body says 2.5 million EU nationals settled in UK have been put at automatic risk of losing rights
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
The Independent Monitoring Authority has launched judicial review proceedings on the grounds that 2.5 million EU citizens who have been granted pre-settled status have been put at automatic risk of losing rights to live, work or rent, or being deported by the home office.

EU nationals and their families who have been in the UK for more than five years get settled status under the Home Office immigration scheme set up for Brexit but those that have been in the country fewer than five years get pre-settled and must apply again for settled status.

But if they do not apply before their pre-settled status expires, they automatically lose their rights and could be liable to removal from the country, something the IMA has said it considers “unlawful”.

The legal action is a rare move that pits a statutory body against a government department. It will be keenly watched by immigration lawyers and campaign groups who have multiple criticisms over the Home Office’s policy that has seen 5.6 million EU citizens apply for post-Brexit status but only 2.6 million granted full settled status.
Click to expand...
 
T & P said:
An EU national friend of a colleague at work recently travelled abroad to see her family- the first time out of the UK since Brexit. Despite having full settled status (20 years living here, British husband and children, mortgage, job, the lot...) she had a bit of a palaver trying to clear immigration at the airport when she returned. She happened to have renewed her passport since her settled status was approved, and apparently that is too much for the Home Office to handle, so the computer kept saying settled status not confirmed. Eventually they worked out the issue, and said she needed to have registered the new passport with The Man before travelling.

So a tip to anyone else who might have renewed their passport since settling: you better let Patel and her Stasi border police immigration officers know your new passport details before travelling.

Ain't Brexit a fresh of fresh air :)
Click to expand...
That's pretty standard to be fair I am a permanent resident where I live and when I replaced my British passport with an Irish one I had to get my PR visa updated with the new passport details or I wouldn't have been able to get back in easily if I left. It makes sense tbh.
 
Dom Traynor said:
That's pretty standard to be fair I am a permanent resident where I live and when I replaced my British passport with an Irish one I had to get my PR visa updated with the new passport details or I wouldn't have been able to get back in easily if I left. It makes sense tbh.
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It makes sense that the system might find the fact that you have a new nationality a bit perplexing. It shouldn't be such a challenge recognising that you've renewed an expired passport but have retained the same nationality.
 
tim said:
It makes sense that the system might find the fact that you have a new nationality a bit perplexing. It shouldn't be such a challenge recognising that you've renewed an expired passport but have retained the same nationality.
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Normally your passport expiry and number are key parts of these things its common sense
 
ska invita said:
important case
www.theguardian.com

Home Office sued by watchdog set up to protect post-Brexit rights of EU citizens

Statutory body says 2.5 million EU nationals settled in UK have been put at automatic risk of losing rights
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
Click to expand...

www.theguardian.com

Brexit rule that makes EU citizens reapply to stay in UK is unlawful, court says

Judge says Home Office rule that puts those with ‘pre-settled status’ at risk of deportation is ‘wrong in law’
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

Judiciary have said that this "pre settled" status and the distinction between this and "settled status" is bollox.

So government attempt to make EU citizens residing here jump through two hoops is now unlawful.

I expect this right wing government will appeal.
 
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