Fate of EU citizens in the UK post Brexit

[Gramsci]

I've already said, more than once, that I'm in favour of the Labour party proposal to allow all foreign nationals resident in the UK the right to vote in all UK national elections. I'm less keen on an argument which suggests that some foreign nationals should be given the right to vote in a particular national election as some sort of one off, but since Cameron didn't consult me before calling the referendum, my views regarding the 2016 referendum aren't especially important now.

This isn't an answer to a straightforward question.

 

[Gramsci]

I've already said, more than once, that I'm in favour of the Labour party proposal to allow all foreign nationals resident in the UK the right to vote in all UK national elections. I'm less keen on an argument which suggests that some foreign nationals should be given the right to vote in a particular national election as some sort of one off, but since Cameron didn't consult me before calling the referendum, my views regarding the 2016 referendum aren't especially important now.

I see in previous post you say the 2016 referendum was equivalent to a national election.

Which it is not.

So from this convoluted answer to my straightforward question I work out that your answer to my question is no. That EU citizens resident here and on the electoral list should not have had a vote in the 2016 referendum.

Them being "foreign" nationals. Despite living here and making a life here they are "foreign". Some for decades of living here.

 

[Gramsci]

Just been explaining to my partner she can't vote in this general election despite it all being about Brexit.

If you are an EU national resident here the fact that Boris has turned this into an election about Brexit is really frustrating when you have no say.

Scary as well when an EU national who would like to vote Labour hears people on radio say they will vote Tory because Boris "will get the job done" even though they have always been Labour voters.

I really hate this country sometimes.

Fortunately my local area is pro Labour and Remain ( Lambeth in inner London) So don't hear that kind of shit where I live.

 

[seeformiles]

My German mother - who has lived and worked in the UK since 1964 - has, after 3 months’ uncertainty and bureaucracy, been granted indefinite leave to remain. It was touch and go for a bit (& she was seriously worried about deportation) but thank you to the Home Office for making her feel welcome at last. She said that she was appalled at the Windrush scandal but (teutonically pragmatic as she is) had a plan B to move in with her sister in Nuremberg if it all went wrong. A shit way to treat anyone.

 

[Gramsci]

Looking for advice on using the EU Exit ID app.

My partner could not get it to download and work.

The only thing I have worked out is that her old but working Nokia One does not have NFC capability.

Using the ‘EU Exit: ID Document Check’ app

Tried on my phone, as advice says one can use a friend's phone. But could not get past tasking photo of passport. Keeps saying already completed. But I think the NFC was not turned on in my phone. I have Nokia 6.

The Android system on both phones should work. According to the advice.

Never heard of NFC before.

 

[MickiQ]

Looking for advice on using the EU Exit ID app.

My partner could not get it to download and work.

The only thing I have worked out is that her old but working Nokia One does not have NFC capability.

Using the ‘EU Exit: ID Document Check’ app

Tried on my phone, as advice says one can use a friend's phone. But could not get past tasking photo of passport. Keeps saying already completed. But I think the NFC was not turned on in my phone. I have Nokia 6.

The Android system on both phones should work. According to the advice.

Never heard of NFC before.

Near Field Communication, it's the same technology that makes contactless cards work, In your phone it's used for things like GooglePay and ApplePay
Can't imagine why it would be necessary for something like this though.

 

[2hats]

It's used to verify the biometric passport details. I've used the Android app successfully for a couple of friends on recent Samsung Galaxy Note hardware.

 

[The39thStep]

Just been explaining to my partner she can't vote in this general election despite it all being about Brexit.

If you are an EU national resident here the fact that Boris has turned this into an election about Brexit is really frustrating when you have no say.

Scary as well when an EU national who would like to vote Labour hears people on radio say they will vote Tory because Boris "will get the job done" even though they have always been Labour voters.

I really hate this country sometimes.

Fortunately my local area is pro Labour and Remain ( Lambeth in inner London) So don't hear that kind of shit where I live.

In Portugal EU citizens can vote but only if they show proof of their right to stay ie residence permit or citizenship

 

[Celyn]

That's a good point which I'd forgotten. Does that apply specifically to EU citizens, or is it everyone resident in Scotland?

And out of interest, can EU citizens vote in MSP elections?

I think it was because the independence referendum was treated in the same way as council elections for organisation purposes therefore the voting rights were the same as those for local elections.

 

[Gramsci]

It's used to verify the biometric passport details. I've used the Android app successfully for a couple of friends on recent Samsung Galaxy Note hardware.

I think on my Nokia 6 I had NFC turned off. As I don't use my phone to pay for things.

As you say its about putting ones phone next to passport to verify passport details.

Took me a while to work this out.

So the government assumes one has latest phone with NFC enabled.

As not everyone changes their phone every year this is a drawback to the app to say the least.

Whoever dreamed this app up assumed everyone upgrades to a new mobile on a regular basis.

I work with people who don't. Like me buy a mobile in local market and use it until it breaks.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

I think on my Nokia 6 I had NFC turned off. As I don't use my phone to pay for things.

As you say its about putting ones phone next to passport to verify passport details.

Took me a while to work this out.

So the government assumes one has latest phone with NFC enabled.

As not everyone changes their phone every year this is a drawback to the app to say the least.

Whoever dreamed this app up assumed everyone upgrades to a new mobile on a regular basis.

I work with people who don't. Like me buy a mobile in local market and use it until it breaks.

Also it won't work with any iPhones, which have NFC but do not make it available to third-party apps. It was never going to be made available yet the government said it definitely would be.

 

[andysays]

I think it was because the independence referendum was treated in the same way as council elections for organisation purposes therefore the voting rights were the same as those for local elections.

I don't think DexterTCN will be pleased to learn they were legally considered mere 'local' elections...

 

[flypanam]

I think on my Nokia 6 I had NFC turned off. As I don't use my phone to pay for things.

As you say its about putting ones phone next to passport to verify passport details.

Took me a while to work this out.

So the government assumes one has latest phone with NFC enabled.

As not everyone changes their phone every year this is a drawback to the app to say the least.

Whoever dreamed this app up assumed everyone upgrades to a new mobile on a regular basis.

I work with people who don't. Like me buy a mobile in local market and use it until it breaks.

When we applied we found it much easier to go through the website, as when I scanned my passport (Irish) it didn't recognise it as such.

 

[Gramsci]

When we applied we found it much easier to go through the website, as when I scanned my passport (Irish) it didn't recognise it as such.

how did you do that?

My partner was starting on the website and then it said download app to scan / photo your passport etc.

 

[flypanam]

Sorry here Apply to the EU Settlement Scheme (settled and pre-settled status)

 

[ska invita]

To my mind the biggest, most meaningful announcement by BJ so far has been the new department of immigration and borders or whatever the fuck they've decided to call it.
Johnson's plans to create new immigration department could expand hostile environment, experts warn
Should strike the fear intended by it

There's been zero addressing the potential deportation of Eu citizens thus far for BJ since he succeeded Theresa May apart from some empty hot air lies on the subject, in fact as meaningful a thing we have to go on is Rees Mogg last year giving it
Rees-Mogg: EU nationals will have no right to stay
...ie. we're booting everyone out.

I still genuinely hope that when faced with the reality of the situation come 2021 this clearly racist cabal will back down and give everyone a let off, but the signs remain terrible for those on the sharp end. This new department is one to watch for sure.

 

[Gramsci]

To my mind the biggest, most meaningful announcement by BJ so far has been the new department of immigration and borders or whatever the fuck they've decided to call it.
Johnson's plans to create new immigration department could expand hostile environment, experts warn
Should strike the fear intended by it

There's been zero addressing the potential deportation of Eu citizens thus far for BJ since he succeeded Theresa May apart from some empty hot air lies on the subject, in fact as meaningful a thing we have to go on is Rees Mogg last year giving it
Rees-Mogg: EU nationals will have no right to stay
...ie. we're booting everyone out.

I still genuinely hope that when faced with the reality of the situation come 2021 this clearly racist cabal will back down and give everyone a let off, but the signs remain terrible for those on the sharp end. This new department is one to watch for sure.

Read the independent article.

What irritates me is the way the Home Office is criticised. Its a though the hostile environment was due to poor bureaucracy or poor management on part to the home office.

Giving migrants a hard time is what the Home Office was asked to do by May. The hostile environment isn't a management issue that can be dealt with by new structures.

In fact the Home Office has been working efficiently. Its put in place the hostile environment that May wanted. So its doing the job it was meant to do.

Setting up a new department isn't going to change anything. Immigration policy is a political issue.

I don't like the way it ends up being written about as though its something that can be improved with better organisation and management. This is treating it like it was supplying a service like electricity. Its depoliticising it.

None of this bodes well for those living here who aren't British.

 

[SpookyFrank]

What irritates me is the way the Home Office is criticised. Its a though the hostile environment was due to poor bureaucracy or poor management on part to the home office.

Giving migrants a hard time is what the Home Office was asked to do by May.

Won't somebody think of the home office? No. They've killed people with this hostile environment shit. They're culpable. Fuck them.

 

[DexterTCN]

Won't somebody think of the home office? No. They've killed people with this hostile environment shit. They're culpable. Fuck them.

It's not relevant though. The Home Office is a slave to the tories.

People need re-assurance, answers, options. People are being deported.

Imagine being concerned that you could be deported...how much could that fuck up your life.

(not directed at you)

 

[ska invita]

I think that's basically the end of that in regards law. Bullshit reassurances from Johnson were obviously lies. Possibly there might yet be an appeal process, but it's inevitable many will fall through that system.

 

[Gramsci]

101 year old Italian man living here for decades found the wonderful app didnt work for people over 100.

Home Office tells man, 101, his parents must confirm ID

Request caused by apparent tech glitch came when Italian Giovanni Palmiero applied to stay in UK post-Brexit

www.theguardian.com

Then found and this is so shit:

The Home Office then accepted the mistake and took Palmiero’s identity details over the phone. Last Thursday he was told he could resume his application as a 101-year-old.
He was then asked to provide proof of residence for five years in the country, even though he has been in the UK for 54 years[/QUOTE]

 

[Gramsci]

My partner had in the end to go to the Spanish Embassy to get help to apply for settled status. Her goverment has been really helpful.

Unlike my government. Im ashamed of this country. Institutionalised anti immigrant bureaucracy is now just how life is in modern brexit UK. A great step forward.

 

[SpookyFrank]

101 year old Italian man living here for decades found the wonderful app didnt work for people over 100.

Home Office tells man, 101, his parents must confirm ID

Request caused by apparent tech glitch came when Italian Giovanni Palmiero applied to stay in UK post-Brexit

www.theguardian.com

He looks pretty good for 101 I'll give him that.

 

[T & P]

Far from me to ever want to say anything positive about Brexit or the government’s handling of it, but to my surprise there were no snags with my application for settled status last week. Well, apart from the fact that I wasn’t aware they had finally launched the app for Apple phones as they haven’t publicised it much, if at all.

I was fearing Spain’s two-surname naming customs might cause a failure, as I sometimes go by first name + 1st surname only and sometimes the two surnames (something Gramsci ’s partner might be familiar with), but the app had the common sense to ask if I was known by any other name combinations, so at least they’d prepared for that.

Then again I’ve been here for 25+ years and fully employed and registered with the electoral roll from the off, so it’d have been fucking pisspoor if they’d deemed extra checks were needed before granting me settled status. And yet it is happening to countless other EU nationals who’ve also been here many years

 

[Gramsci]

Far from me to ever want to say anything positive about Brexit or the government’s handling of it, but to my surprise there were no snags with my application for settled status last week. Well, apart from the fact that I wasn’t aware they had finally launched the app for Apple phones as they haven’t publicised it much, if at all.

I was fearing Spain’s two-surname naming customs might cause a failure, as I sometimes go by first name + 1st surname only and sometimes the two surnames (something Gramsci ’s partner might be familiar with), but the app had the common sense to ask if I was known by any other name combinations, so at least they’d prepared for that.

Then again I’ve been here for 25+ years and fully employed and registered with the electoral roll from the off, so it’d have been fucking pisspoor if they’d deemed extra checks were needed before granting me settled status. And yet it is happening to countless other EU nationals who’ve also been here many years

The Spanish two surnames. No one in this country can pronounce my partners correctly. Including me.

Mt partner said everything went ok at Embassy when they did it for her.

Im concerned that she didnt get a confirmation in writing. Did you get confirmation?

She reckons she is ok. Im , as a Brit , a bit wary that its all fine.

Im concerned she is only just within the five years required.

Not having an ID card saying settled status does concern me.

BTW the Spanish government is making sure its going to look after its citizens here. So if you have any problems in future Id say contact them. Does not matter how long you've lived here.

 

[T & P]

The Spanish two surnames. No one in this country can pronounce my partners correctly. Including me.

Mt partner said everything went ok at Embassy when they did it for her.

Im concerned that she didnt get a confirmation in writing. Did you get confirmation?

She reckons she is ok. Im , as a Brit , a bit wary that its all fine.

Im concerned she is only just within the five years required.

Not having an ID card saying settled status does concern me.

BTW the Spanish government is making sure its going to look after its citizens here. So if you have any problems in future Id say contact them. Does not matter how long you've lived here.

Yes, I got an email confirmation that came with a PDF attachment of an official letter from the government confirming I’ve been given indefinite leave to remain. Obviously I’ll be saving copies of that letter in various places and printing a paper copy. It still says it constitutes no ‘proof’ of my status though.

thanks for the tip about the Spanish embassy being helpful- good to know.

 

[Gramsci]

Yes, I got an email confirmation that came with a PDF attachment of an official letter from the government confirming I’ve been given indefinite leave to remain. Obviously I’ll be saving copies of that letter in various places and printing a paper copy. It still says it constitutes no ‘proof’ of my status though.

thanks for the tip about the Spanish embassy being helpful- good to know.

The reason Im concerned is what happened to acquaintance of mine down the road. She had a British passport. It ran out so she went to get it renewed. Which she thought would be straightforward. They came back asking her for more evidence she had a right to a British passport. Fortunately her Father was one of those people who kept all old documents so she got her new British passport eventually. She did lose the holiday she had paid for. Her Father was non EU.

She got caught up in the "Hostile Environment". You think your ok resident here and then they change the regulations.

A piece of physical evidence to say your status here would help imo.

But this just goes to show that ones status in this country is not to be taken as a given. She thought she was ok already having a British passport..

 

[T & P]

The reason Im concerned is what happened to acquaintance of mine down the road. She had a British passport. It ran out so she went to get it renewed. Which she thought would be straightforward. They came back asking her for more evidence she had a right to a British passport. Fortunately her Father was one of those people who kept all old documents so she got her new British passport eventually. She did lose the holiday she had paid for. Her Father was non EU.

She got caught up in the "Hostile Environment". You think your ok resident here and then they change the regulations.

A piece of physical evidence to say your status here would help imo.

But this just goes to show that ones status in this country is not to be taken as a given. She thought she was ok already having a British passport..

From what people have told me during the last three years, getting UK citizenship is a lot harder and more complex than settled status. The latter is for many quick and straightforward, but I remain a Spanish/ EU citizen. Whereas theoretically they cannot ever kick settled EU citizens out, I fear they might do so for such things as relatively minor criminal offences (possession of class-A drugs for personal use, affray etc).

I would prefer the extra safety net of dual citizenship but can’t be arsed with the ludicrous OTT test, paperwork demands or £1.2k costs.

 

[T & P]

This is the letter btw...

 

[ska invita]

some good news I think in the figures published today

Scheme for EU citizens to stay in UK draws 3.4m applications

Government close to target figure, but researchers still fear citizens may be missed out

www.theguardian.com

more than i was expecting considering earlier numbers and looming brexit deadlines

though that is still at least 400,000 not applied < still a massive number
and they've got that number by not giving 41% of applicants the 5 years settled status, whether they should've had it or not, so still insecurities to come