Fate of EU citizens in the UK post Brexit

[Raheem]

Is that not a bit like suggesting that it will be easier to negotiate an amicable divorce if you agree to not actually get divorced, not move out of the marital home, not drag up every argument, and not start dating Kirsten from Accounts - academic, and irrelevant?

Or it might be like acknowledging that an amicable divorce is going to mean give and take and doesn't have to mean you will never again have anything to do with each other ever again.

That said, yes, it is a fundamental problem at the heart of Brexit that what was on the ballot paper was tangential to what a lot of people were voting about

 

[gentlegreen]

Or it might be like acknowledging that an amicable divorce is going to mean give and take and doesn't have to mean you will never again have anything to do with each other ever again.

That said, yes, it is a fundamental problem at the heart of Brexit that what was on the ballot paper was tangential to what a lot of people were voting about

What was on the ballot paper was "succinct to the point of meaninglessness" as the tutor wrote on the one social science essay I ever handed in.
Or as James O' Brien repeatedly points out - whose Brexit did you vote for ? And those same people changed their definitions as soon as the result was known (all the main "leave" advocates had claimed leaving the single market would be madness)

Spoiler: youtube video

 

[gentlegreen]

I don't remember seeing ANY referendum advertising at the time, but fecking hell :-

Spoiler: youtube "leave" advert

I'm amazed the channel is still up.

 

[zahir]

Video of today’s Home Affairs Committee hearing on the EU settlement scheme. I don’t find any of it reassuring.

Parliamentlive.tv

This thread highlights a few of the points raised.

 

[ska invita]

Video of today’s Home Affairs Committee hearing on the EU settlement scheme. I don’t find any of it reassuring.

Parliamentlive.tv

This thread highlights a few of the points raised.

Exactly what i was saying in the OP in this exchange...

Do you know anything about this hearing? Why its taking place, what power it has, that kind of thing?

 

[zahir]

I don’t know that much about how it works, beyond making recommendations.

Role - Home Affairs Committee

The Committee chooses its own subjects of inquiry and seeks written and oral evidence from a wide range of relevant groups and individuals. At the end of an inquiry the Committee will often produce a report setting out its findings and making recommendations to the Government. The Government must respond to each of the report’s recommendations within two months of publication.

 

[zahir]

The Independent has a report based on the hearing, though it’s a bit of a half-hearted effort.

EU citizens’ children could lose right to stay in UK, senior MP warns

The alarm has been raised over youngsters who – in a repeat of the Windrush Scandal – do not apply for the new settled status, perhaps because their parents believe them to be British.

Campaigners giving evidence to the Commons Home Affairs Committee told MPs of “a real concern” that there are no “safeguards in place”.

Yvette Cooper, the committee’s chair, said: “You could have quite a lot of children who could pass the deadline for the settlement scheme, be completely unaware of their rights – and to lose their rights”.

Ms Cooper also set out the grim situation for any EU citizen without settled status after Brexit “even though might have been living here all their lives”.

“If they don’t complete the application process by the deadline they will be here unlawfully, potentially unable to re-enter the country if they leave to visit family, potentially committing criminal offences just by working, potentially told by their landlord that they can no longer rent a property, potentially told by the NHS that they are no longer entitled to urgent treatment they might need, despite the fact they may have been paying in taxes for very many years,” she warned.

 

[Gramsci]

The issue of EU people accessing government data on them to help prove their right to be here is still going slowly through the legal system. Now Judge last month granted right to judicial review. Its imo totally bizarre situation, very much part of hostile enviromment, where people can't access data that might help their case,

They are challenging a section of the Data Protection Act 2018 that contains a new exemption permitting Home Office “data controllers” to restrict access to personal data if it would be likely to prejudice “effective immigration control”.

Its a misuse of data protection. Government is effectively saying individual can't access data that might help their case to stay here. Thus in Orwellian speak prejudicing effective immigration control.

From:

Data laws could harm EU citizens' attempts to stay in UK, court told

See here Leigh Day from the legal team:

The campaigners argue that by denying people the right to access their data people will not be able to properly challenge errors made by the Home Office. This could lead to applications relating to immigration statuses being wrongly refused or wrongful deportations taking place.

Rosa Curling, solicitor at Leigh Day, said:

“Our clients are delighted with the decision today. The attempt to remove so many people’s data rights is particularly worrying in the context of the Home Office’s hostile environment policy. Our clients are pleased to be have been granted permission so they can present their arguments in full to the court at a substantive hearing.”

Nicolas Hatton of the3million, the EU citizens group, says:
“If over three million EU citizens are going to apply for settled status, they must be able to do so knowing it’s safe for them to do it, with the right to see what the Home Office is doing with their data.

Campaign groups granted permission for judicial review of immigration exemption

 

[Gramsci]

One might be forgiven for thinking that Home Office just wishes that a percentage of EU citizens will just give up and go.

 

[DexterTCN]

On the 'test' version of the citizen test it seems one of the questions is-

What is the highest value note in circulation?

a) £20
b) £70
c) £50
d) £100

the correct answer is apparently c.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

On the 'test' version of the citizen test it seems one of the questions is-

What is the highest value note in circulation?

a) £20
b) £70
c) £50
d) £100

the correct answer is apparently c.

there is a 100 pound note in scotland.

i didn't know that until fairly recently

 

[cupid_stunt]

there is a 100 pound note in scotland.

i didn't know that until fairly recently

IIRC both some Scottish & some Northern Irish banks issue £100 notes.

 

[DexterTCN]

IIRC both some Scottish & some Northern Irish banks issue £100 notes.

Yes it's a bit of a trick question, you can be wrong whichever way you answer.

 

[DexterTCN]

 

[zahir]

 

[zahir]

From the above I’m not sure if a distinction is going to be made between bringing over a non-EU partner or a partner from the EU.

Will a British citizen who wants to marry someone from the EU be affected by the £18K minimum income rule?

 

[CRI]

That was pretty ghastly, but some of the poems in response are good.

 

[CRI]

From the above I’m not sure if a distinction is going to be made between bringing over a non-EU partner or a partner from the EU.

Will a British citizen who wants to marry someone from the EU be affected by the £18K minimum income rule?

I'm pretty sure that spouses from EU countries will be regarded the same as spouses from any other country, unless by some miracle alternatives are included in a "deal." There is also the strange situation for people in Northern Ireland. Under the GFA, they can hold Irish, British or both nationalities. However, the Home Office regards them as British regardless, so if Irish citizens living there have spouses from other EU countries, they could also be in the shit.

 

[zahir]

I'm pretty sure that spouses from EU countries will be regarded the same as spouses from any other country, unless by some miracle alternatives are included in a "deal."

It looks like you’re right about this. I was just listening to the end of today’s Immigration Bill hearing and a witness from British in Europe raised it as an issue for British citizens living in the EU with an EU partner who want to move back to Britain. She gave the example of someone she knows who faces the choice of staying with a disabled partner in Italy (I think) or returning to look after her ageing parents in England. Meeting the £18K income requirement would be out of the question.

ETA: Video of the Immigration Bill hearing. The British in Europe witnesses are giving evidence in last 25 minutes or so.

Parliamentlive.tv

 

[CRI]

It looks like you’re right about this. I was just listening to the end of today’s Immigration Bill hearing and a witness from British in Europe raised it as an issue for British citizens living in the EU with an EU partner who want to move back to Britain. She gave the example of someone she knows who faces the choice of staying with a disabled partner in Italy (I think) or returning to look after her ageing parents in England. Meeting the £18K income requirement would be out of the question.

I think there are so many people who are still unaware of how this will impact on them or people close to them.

As an aside, in just the past 3 months or so, 4 people I know who are either citizens of other EU countries, or who have a spouse who is, have left the UK, for good. Such a pointless fucking loss.

 

[zahir]

One more problem with the settled status application scheme.

Petition: Provide settled and pre-settled status EU citizens a physical document as proof.

EU citizens on the scheme have no documentary evidence to provide border agents, landlords and prospective employers their right to reside in the UK other than a website. Also the paperless system is potentially vulnerable to cyber-attacks. Provide a physical document/ID to prove settled status.

A cybersecurity lecturer writes...

 

[zahir]

 

[Puddy_Tat]

to provide evidence for 6 months' residence on 2019?

 

[zahir]

There’s more. Thread:

 

[zahir]

There is also the strange situation for people in Northern Ireland. Under the GFA, they can hold Irish, British or both nationalities. However, the Home Office regards them as British regardless

An account from someone faced with this.

UK Government Refuses to recognise Irish citizenship

I’m taking it that the route she’s followed couldn’t be used post-brexit.

 

[zahir]

This is worth listening to.


Also.

What exactly will the Home Office do with the 3 million's private data?

 

[ska invita]

An account from someone faced with this.

UK Government Refuses to recognise Irish citizenship

I’m taking it that the route she’s followed couldn’t be used post-brexit.

Thanks for all the links.
Re NIreland, have I understood this right, basically according to the government everyone in NI has to choose between being British or Irish.... And if they chose Irish they have to go through the registration process to remain in NI legally?

 

[zahir]

As I understand it the settled status regime doesn’t apply for the Irish. One thing they do lose in all this is the right, if they’re living in the UK, to bring in a partner from another country without having to meet the minimum income requirement. I’m not sure about other implications.

 

[spitfire]

As I understand it the settled status regime doesn’t apply for the Irish. One thing they do lose in all this is the right, if they’re living in the UK, to bring in a partner from another country without having to meet the minimum income requirement. I’m not sure about other implications.

Fucksakes, really? I've just started a new business and am on about half the min. reqs.

Mlle. Fire is on more than the min. (She's French).

Wonder how that will pan out?

Those tweets are about what I expected the level of competence to be with this whole shitshow. Useless.

And thanks zahir and ska invita for keeping the info coming.

 

[zahir]

Fucksakes, really? I've just started a new business and am on about half the min. reqs.

Mlle. Fire is on more than the min. (She's French).

Wonder how that will pan out?

I’m fairly sure you’d be OK as it’s an existing relationship. I think the problems really start for new relationships beginning after brexit.