Limejuice
Well-Known Member
Sounds exhausting.
F1 2022
- Thread starter 1%er
- Start date
Buddy Bradley
Pantheistic solipsist
"And it's lights..." <stream cuts out> 
Buddy Bradley
Pantheistic solipsist
Barely halfway through and I've already minimised the race stream window so I can read Reddit instead. Miss the excitement of the last few races.
1%er
Well-Known Member
Loads of links available here
Buddy Bradley
Pantheistic solipsist
I still have it on in the background but I've stopped paying attention.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
Looks like being a splendid result for Red Bull.
Incidentally, if you wonder where the Red Bull funding comes from, they sell 8 billion cans a year. They manufacture not a single tin.
Incidentally, if you wonder where the Red Bull funding comes from, they sell 8 billion cans a year. They manufacture not a single tin.
Lord Camomile
Yipchaa!
As someone who only really started paying attention to F1 when Hamilton was at McLaren (though I was aware of it and caught the odd race here and there before), Ferrari's reputation and status in the sport is... well, I understand the history, but that feels like rather all it is...
(Appreciate Schumacher wasn't that long ago, but I didn't watch a lot of that and, possibly unfairly, I think I also kind of attribute that to Schumacher rather than Ferrari, even though I know that's not how it works)
Ax^
Silly Rabbit
hmm so my comments about one alpha strangely turned into both of them being in the pit lane was almost suggest by Di resta during Qualifying
Lewis starting to look a little disengaged this season.. Alonso over harsh comments saying that if the likes playing in the mid field thankfully he going to Aston martin next year. still have no idea why he is doing that move for a Merc powered car? why to poodle about with a pay driver
changing the rule book to suit Red Bull seems to be working well fair play to Max, might as well give him a drivers after todays performance
and good race from Russell,
ferrari continuing to be useless
i love spa but this has been a boring race
Lewis starting to look a little disengaged this season.. Alonso over harsh comments saying that if the likes playing in the mid field thankfully he going to Aston martin next year. still have no idea why he is doing that move for a Merc powered car? why to poodle about with a pay driver
changing the rule book to suit Red Bull seems to be working well fair play to Max, might as well give him a drivers after todays performance
and good race from Russell,
ferrari continuing to be useless
i love spa but this has been a boring race
Limejuice
Well-Known Member
Gegroet, vrienden! The Dutch GP calleth. The teams can probably stroll from last week's circuit to the next.
The telly times are (unsurprisingly) the same as last weekend.
Fri 2 Sept
FP1 - 13:00
FP2 - 16:00
Sat 3 Sept
FP3 - 12:00
Qual - 15:00
Sun 4 Sept
Race - 14:00
And our motto for the race is: Mogen de Red Bull-auto's presteren als een trekpaard met een kater.
The telly times are (unsurprisingly) the same as last weekend.
Fri 2 Sept
FP1 - 13:00
FP2 - 16:00
Sat 3 Sept
FP3 - 12:00
Qual - 15:00
Sun 4 Sept
Race - 14:00
And our motto for the race is: Mogen de Red Bull-auto's presteren als een trekpaard met een kater.
1%er
Well-Known Member
Mick Schumacher Wants Out From Ferrari F1
Ferrari protege Mick Schumacher is expected to cut ties with the Italian team in order to become a free agent at the end of the 2022 Formula 1 season, according to Autosport. The second-generation racing driver has been part of the Ferrari Driver Academy for several years, but is reportedly looking to break the affiliation to keep his F1 career alive. Schumacher has yet to confirm a seat for the 2023 season. Ferrari took the young driver under its wing in 2019 due to his stellar performance in the junior series, team principal Mattia Binotto has said before. But of course, it's impossible to ignore the ties between Maranello and the Schumacher family, so that's certainly played a role. The Scuderia has not only provided Schumacher with job placement, financial support through the feeder series, and plenty of training via its academy—but originally made him somewhat of a valuable commodity in F1.However, Schumacher's status isn't what it once was, and he may now need to break ties with Ferrari in order to find a seat—any seat—without Maranello's approval. That could mean Alpine, Williams, or even AlphaTauri. It's unlikely that Alfa Romeo could extend him a helping hand at this point in the year, so in reality, Ferrari isn't doing much for him during this moment of need. Schumacher's current team, Haas F1, has yet to announce its '23 lineup, so the publication's report remains unconfirmed, however. There's a chance Schumacher could excel over the remaining races of the year and secure a contract extension, though at this point it's highly unlikely Haas management would be persuaded by a sudden improvement. Should it happen, however, Schumacher wouldn't just be able to race with a familiar squad for another season, but also retain his partnership with Ferrari.
Haas F1 team principal Guenther Steiner has made it public that the German's performance hasn't met expectations this season. The second-generation racer railed to score any championship points until the British Grand Prix at Silverstone, followed by another points-scoring position in Austria. He currently sits 15th in the drivers' championship with 12 points while his teammate Kevin Magnussen sits in 11th with 22. It'll be interesting to follow this situation through the next few races. The remaining vacant seats will slowly but surely get filled, and there's a good chance that more than one driver will be left without a ride in 2023. While there's something nice about having a Schumacher involved with Ferrari, it's certainly in the youngster's best interest to find a seat soon. Maranello's blessing be damned.
1%er
Well-Known Member
Helmut Marko gives greenlight for Pierre Gasly to replace Fernando Alonso
Pierre Gasly is set to replace Fernando Alonso at Alpine at the end of the year, after senior Red Bull adviser Dr Helmut Marko said the team would be willing to release him from his contract. Gasly made his Formula 1 debut with Red Bull’s sister team, Scuderia Toro Rosso as it was then called, at the 2017 Malaysian Grand Prix, and raced full-time with the outfit in 2018 . After an impressive first year in the pinnacle of motorsport, the Frenchman was promoted to Red Bull Racing. He partnered Max Verstappen, and after half-a-season of being comprehensively outperformed by the Dutch ace, he was demoted back to Toro Rosso.Despite some standpoint performances since his return, including victory at the 2020 Italian Grand Prix, Red Bull have snubbed him for Sergio Perez, resulting in the Frenchman growing frustrated. Following Oscar Piastri publicly turning down Alpine’s offer of a drive for next year, it has been reported that the Enstone-based team are looking to sign Gasly. This would give them an all-French driver line-up in 2023, though it should be noted that Alpine are also reportedly considering signing Daniel Ricciardo. Addressing Gasly being linked with Alpine, Dr Marko has revealed to Auto Motor und Sport (AMuS) that Red Bull is willing to release him from his contract a year early.
While the Frenchman is understood to be keen to get out of the Red Bull programme, after not being rewarded for his strong performances, a move to Alpine isn’t as clear-cut as it might initially seem. This is because Gasly doesn’t enjoy a good relationship with Esteban Ocon, as the pair had a falling out many years ago and are understood to still be on bad terms. This was recently brought up by ex-F1 racer Paul di Resta, who noted that most team-mates have struggled to have a good working relationship with Ocon. “It’s no secret that he and Ocon don’t necessarily get on too well,” di Resta said. “I don’t think too many team-mates get on with Ocon, to be honest. You heard Fernando on the radio. They work together on track but off it? He can be quite difficult. Sergio Perez had the same issue. This is about compensation for [Alpine] to be able to then get Gasly. A double-French line-up would be great. Gasly in that system, with the way he is driving, would be a credit,” he added.
[Ocan has just come out and said he wants Mick Schumacher to be his team mate next year LOLOL]
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1%er
Well-Known Member
Story of Brawn GP to launch on Disney+
2009 Formula 1 World Champion Jenson Button has announced a documentary is set to air on Disney+ about his memorable title winning campaign. The 2009 season has gone down in F1, and motorsport folklore after Ross Brawn brought the remains of the Honda team for one pound sterling and guided it to the Constructors' Championship and Button to the Drivers' title. Brawn shoehorned in a Mercedes engine and gearbox into a car originally designed for Honda gubbins, and promptly won six of the first seven races through Button. At the Brazilian Grand Prix, Button and Brawn claimed the two titles, having fended off a late charge by Sebastian Vettel and Red Bull. The team was sold ahead of the 2010 campaign to Mercedes.Writing on Instagram, 15-time Grand Prix winner Button confirmed the four-part documentary would air on the Disney+ subscription service. The series will be entitled "Brawn: The One Pound Formula 1 Team." Button did not say when the series would release, but added it would be "coming soon."
Ax^
Silly Rabbit
Ocon and Gasly come from the same hometown and have hated each other for years could be a fun pairing
1%er
Well-Known Member
Red Bull-Porsche engine deal in jeopardy
First it was difficult to keep the deal a secret, now it might be difficult to keep the deal at all. Red Bull and Porsche are yet to finalise plans to partner in 2026 and, with an urgent need to get to work on the new engines under the revised technical regulations, decisions need to be made quickly. It was announced earlier on in the season that Porsche and Audi were waiting for the green light from Volkswagen, their parent company, to march into Formula 1 in four years’ time and begin to plant the seeds of a new era of dominance.There were initial reports that the two German motoring giants were planning to make a brand-new powertrain together and supply it to McLaren and Red Bull. Since then, things have become clearer, and the pair intend to come in as entirely separate entities. Audi are set to purchase a team, which will see them move that team’s operation to their factory just outside their headquarters in Ingolstadt. The works project will see F1 engines made in Germany for the first time since 2009, something they pointed out in a friendly dig at Mercedes their press release announcing their entry. They are expected to buy the Sauber team, who are splitting with Alfa Romeo at the end of next year, before their operation is expected to end in Zurich, with Audi moving it to Germany.
Porsche, meanwhile, have filed paperwork to buy 50 percent of Red Bull Technologies, and they have applied to trademark the term “F1nally.” These all point to the obvious and, given they have begun to purchase stakes in the Technologies side of the business, it is expected that they also plan to work with AlphaTauri too. Their plan is to make complete powertrains, likely in Red Bull’s new facility in Milton Keynes, meaning that the Austrian side would be a works team without officially operating as one.
However, recent noises from the deal have not been good; Red Bull are said to be nervous about the amount of shares Porsche are buying. In a worst-case scenario for Red Bull, CEO Oliver Blume could be thinking of a hostile takeover, but Red Bull’s main concern at the moment is what happens if they take one hand off the wheel. No one is saying it will come to that, but the possibility of Red Bull extending their deal with Honda if they cannot come to terms with Porsche on an engine deal.
Team principal Christian Horner said, that negotiations are “not that simple,” although he would “welcome” a Porsche involvement as long as the terms are suitable for everyone. Team adviser, Dr Helmut Marko, insisted that the Milton Keynes-based side are now ready to “build our own engine.”
1%er
Well-Known Member
Italian driver to replace Mick Schumacher at Haas in 2023
Ferrari have confirmed that Mick Schumacher will be leaving the Ferrari Driver Academy at the end of this season. The split puts Schumacher’s Haas contract in jeopardy, and Antonio Giovinazzi, who continues to have Ferrari’s backing, looks set to replace him. 23-year-old Schumacher joined the FDA at the start of 2019 as he was about to contest his first season in Formula 2. He had won the Formula 3 championship the year previous, and finished an impressive fifth at the infamous Macau Grand Prix.As with many FDA drivers on the final rung of the developmental ladder, Schumacher joined the Prema team in 2019, but finished 12th in the championship after scoring points in eight feature races. He completely turned this round in the COVID-affected 2020 though, scoring points 20 times, winning two races and ending on the podium on a further eight times. The resulting championship success earned him a spot at Haas in 2021 but, in an underperforming car, neither he nor fellow rookie Nikita Mazepin managed points. The Russian was replaced this season by Kevin Magnussen amid his country’s continued invasion of Ukraine, and the Dane has out-qualified Schumacher 11 times this year.
He has been in the points four times and, after struggling for form and suffering big crashes in Jeddah and Monaco, Schumacher eventually scored his first points by finishing eighth in Silverstone. That was immediately followed by a P6 in Spielberg, but Haas have not scored since the Austrian Grand Prix. Ferrari’s relationship with Haas will likely mean they will want an FDA driver in the car next season and, should that be the case, the German will be searching for another drive. Giovinazzi would be the more obvious choice having driven for Alfa Romeo previously, but former Formula 2 driver Robert Shwartzman is also an option. Formula 3 drivers, Arthur Leclerc and Oliver Bearman, have not quite developed enough yet, while external drivers such as Daniel Ricciardo and Nico Hulkenberg have also been mentioned.
Were the Scuderia to allow Haas to make their own decision on their driver for next year, Schumacher is still very much a possibility as he tries to agree a contract for next year. Seats at Alpine, AlphaTauri and Alfa Romeo are currently available, but Yuki Tsunoda and Zhou Guanyu are both expected to sign new contracts with the latter two. Alpine are reportedly trying to get the other AlphaTauri driver, Pierre Gasly, on board though, potentially presenting another opportunity with the Italian side, unless Schumacher is able to agree a deal with the Enstone-based team – if he wants it.
1%er
Well-Known Member
Porsche deal with Red Bull F1 is off
Porsche have a limited exposure in their history to Formula One though should understand the ways of the Piranha club. Their prevarication with declaring an F1 entry has merely damaged their credibility amongst inside F1 overseers. The new generation of F1 power units are set to be introduced in 2026 and Porsche have been flirting with an F1 entry for almost a decade now. It feels like Porsche have for years been merely playing with the idea of returning to Formula One, but TJ13 sees no serious intent on behalf of the German brand. In fact Porsche’s history with F1 demonstrates a lack of commitment to the sport with brief flirtatious interludes of participation.Porsche designed 1500 cc F2 cars in the late 1950’s and moved them up to F1 in 1961, but they were not competitive. For 1962 Porsche developed a flat eight powered and sleek looking Porsche 804, though beautiful to the eye, it won just one championship race at the 1962 French GP. Porsche retired from F1 a week later citing “high costs”. Porsche returned to Formula One in 1983 almost two decades later. McLaren had been using the Ford built V8’s since 1968 and needed to get with the latest forced induction engine programme.
TAG were engaged to pay for the programme because Porsche refused to do it on a works team relationship basis, reluctant to have their name on the engines, fearing bad publicity if they failed. They designed and supplied water-cooled V6 turbo engines badged as TAG power units for the McLaren Team, though the engines bore a “made by Porsche” identification. In 1983, the Porsche engine didn’t cover itself in glory, but a year later McLaren and Porsche won 12 of the 16 races and the F1 championships. The TAG badged Porsche engine saw two more years of championship title wins but by 1987 was becoming long in the tooth. McLaren persuaded the Williams F1 team’s engine partner Honda to replace Porsche in 1988. Despite the success of the TAG/Porsche engines in the McLaren, the power unit was never the most powerful in F1 because they couldn’t deliver the higher turbo boost like their rivals. McLaren’s drivers repeatedly begged for Porsche to build more powerful qualifying engines, though the team refused to stump up the expense. The Tag engines were more fuel efficient and their lack of high end power did not stop McLaren from claiming 7 pole positions (6 for Prost, 1 for Keke Rosberg) and 21 front-row starts.
Porsche’s next dalliance with F1 was in 1991 but it brought disastrous results. The Footwork Arrows cars were powered by an overweight Porsche 3512 double V6 engine which weighed 180kg. McLaren designer Alan Jenkins claimed the new engine was in fact 2 combined TAG V6 engines used by McLaren from 1983 to 1987 minus the turbochargers. The engine failed to score a single point for Arrows and even failed even to qualify for over half the races that year. Porsche was sacked in favour of Cosworth for the following season and since then the German racing marque has not participated in Formula One. Porsche dominated the LMP1 category of the World Endurance Championship between 2015 and 2017. Their engine design and build department at the time numbered about 40. By way of contrast, Mercedes AMG F1 which has dominated Formula One in the hybrid era began in 2014 employs around 700 people in its Brixworth facility, the home of their power trains.
Prior to their withdrawal from the WEC, Porsche’s head of motorsport Fritz Enzinger claimed, “At the end of 2017, we received a concrete order from our parent company to further develop a highly efficient six-cylinder engine, despite its LMP1 withdrawal,” he said. “Not only on paper but actually as hardware and with the idea that this engine will be put to the test in 2019. In 2017 there were signals from Formula 1 that the regulations were to be changed and that energy recovery from the exhaust gases [the MGU-H] was no longer required,” he said. “As of 2017, Porsche was a member of the FIA Manufacturers Commission and was involved in the discussions about the future drive strategy in Formula 1 from 2021 and represented at the meetings. On the one hand, we took part in these working groups. On the other hand, the guys developed a six-cylinder for the WEC in parallel. Of course, we thought about what would have to change if the engine were to be used in Formula 1."
The next generation of F1 power units were originally to be introduced in 2021, though dalliance from the likes of Porsche and Audi followed by the pandemic saw this program repeatedly delayed. Now the new F1 power units are expected to debut in 20226. TJ13 has repeatedly questioned the much reported tie up between Porsche and Red Bull for the next generation of F1 power units. In particular, the reports of a 50% buy-in from the German marque into the Red Bull Racing team we have repeatedly scorned as risible disinformation. Dietrich Mateschitzh doesn’t need anyone else money and Red Bull Power trains have invested 100’s of millions in a new power train facility in Milton Keynes. They are currently favoured by the F1 rules to freeze engine design until 2026 and so are running their former Honda F1 power unit with consultancy expertise from Japan.
Red Bull recently announced this partnership would continue until the end of 2025. Red Bull Racing were so badly burned by Renault letting them down in 2014 as the new hybrid V6 engines first ran, that a plan was formed within the team to never again be dependent on a power unit supplier. That journey saw Red Bull Powertrains build their Milton Keynes new facility in just 54 weeks. TJ13 has previously reported Andy Cowell, the Mercedes genius V6 hybrid power unit designer, will be announced shortly as Red Bull’s 2026 power unit design technical officer. Further, Gordon Murray is believed to be involved as a consultant having recently designed and built the most powerful V12 combustion engine ever designed for his T50 hypercar.
“The T50 produces the highest power density of any naturally aspirated road car engine ever made – 166PS-per-litre. This record, coupled with the lightness of the unit, places this engine right at the pinnacle of naturally aspirated powertrain development. To achieve the lowest weight possible the block in the T.50 is made from a high-strength aluminium alloy, the crankshaft is made from steel and weighs only 13 kilograms, and the connecting rods and valves are made from titanium – as is the clutch housing. This all contributed to engine weight of just 178kg – yet another road-car record.”
Red Bull Racing do not really need Porsche and Christian Horner has in several interviews gone to great lengths to play down the potential Porsche future involvement with the team. Speaking specifically about a possible power unit partner, Horner is adamant that Red Bull Racing will be in charge of any partner relationships. “Any partnership would have to fit with the Red Bull philosophy, obviously, the DNA, the culture of who we are, how we go racing and what we’ve achieved. It would be absolutely fundamental to any discussion of not changing that, you know. We’re successful for a reason. And you know, of course, in any discussion that would be conditional on any involvement.”
Further, Red Bull Racing’s ambition is to match Ferrari’s production facility. “In Milton Keynes we’ve gone from being an industrial estate or a few units on an industrial estate to being a technology campus and that, you know, the investment by the group has been significant. And I think with the new power unit regulations coming for 2026, we’ll be the only team, other than Ferrari, to have everything under one roof, on one site, on one campus. And that’s tremendously exciting for us. And so Red Bull has seen, you know, tremendous growth in the sport in everything that we’re doing, and I think that commitment and that investment has been second to none.”
Given Porsche’s lack of historical F1 pedigree and Luke warm interest over the years; this clearly does not fit with the ambitious F1 aspirations of the Red Bull Racing outfit. TJ13 has been led to believe the announcement that Porsche will ‘withdraw’ from a partnership with the F1 Milton Keynes based team is merely a few weeks away.
[I think I should point out that Porsche pulling out of the Red Bull deal is only an opinion at this time, while there has been news reports that there have been some "difficulties" between both parties, this is the only report I have read that says the deal is dead]
1%er
Well-Known Member
Pierre Gasly was heard saying “I’m still working on the final details of the contract,” by Ferrari's YouTube channel over last weekends race, I think he was talking about a contract with Alpine as he already has a contract with AlphaTauri for next season. So what "final details" would there need to worked out with AlphaTauri. I think Red Bull will let him go for a price and it would be a good deal for him.
It wouldn't surprise me to hear that Mick Schumacher replaces Gasly now he is out of his contract with Ferrari.
It wouldn't surprise me to hear that Mick Schumacher replaces Gasly now he is out of his contract with Ferrari.
