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England cricket, 2019-20 winter tours

Casual Observer said:
A bad shafting, yes, but not as bad as the shafting of Ben Foakes.
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Yeah it is. Way worse. Foakes has played test cricket, and is still young so will probably play tests again. Hildreth has never played and never will play for England. And to insult to the injury, just look at the line of miserable failures who've made their debuts for England this decade. Compare their first class stats to those of Hildreth. This isn't like Aus 20 years ago, when the team was so strong that some really great batters never got a go.
 
SpookyFrank said:
Whilst I agree that all tests at this point should be seen as vital opportunities to rebuild the side for the long term, these two-test tours are shite. I would have loved to see a proper series in New Zealand, and not just because antipodean winter tours are great for insomniac cricket fans like me.
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I agree with that, but adding the recent short tours together, England's recent record in NZ is appalling. They either get totally annihilated or they cling on for draws. Last three tours: played 7, won 0, drawn 5, lost 2 (both by an innings).

Where's the incentive for NZ to offer such a weak side longer tours? ;)
 
littlebabyjesus said:
Yeah it is. Way worse. Foakes has played test cricket, and is still young so will probably play tests again. Hildreth has never played and never will play for England. And to insult to the injury, just look at the line of miserable failures who've made their debuts for England this decade. Compare their first class stats to those of Hildreth. This isn't like Aus 20 years ago, when the team was so strong that some really great batters never got a go.
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Hildreth should have played test cricket for England by now. No two ways about it. Difficult to guess how he'd have done and whether he'd kept his place long-term. He may have scored 60 runs in 8 innings then been dropped or he may have thrived, impossible to say.

Foakes should have been blooded on the 2017/18 Ashes tour. He was out there in the squad, in good batting nick, but wasn't used as England took a 4-0 pasting. He eventually made his debut in Sri Lanka last winter and, despite being man of the series, was dropped two games later in the Windies after Bairstow threw a strop and Root sided with his mate. Foakes had proved by then that he could make it at test level.

The difference between Hildreth and Foakes in the shafted stakes is that the former has been denied 4+ caps while Foakes has been denied 20+ caps (on top of the 5 he has). Yes, Foakes' time may come again but that won't reverse what's happened. On that basis, the shafting of Foakes was the more severe shafting of the two. The (pre-Ed Smith) Carberry shafting wasn't very nice either.
 
Agree about Carberry - been mentioned many times on here, very rough treatment. And fwiw I think England are totally misguided and confused not having Foakes as the keeper in every test. But I thought it was misguided to have Stewart keeping instead of Russell. I think the stats on Stewart's batting and how it suffered back that up, but balance, it's all about balance.

And speaking of balance, it appears Moeen's stock is rising as he remains outside the team. Not going to SA, but perhaps going to Sri Lanka. For SA, no real surprises. Be very interesting to see selection if Anderson is fit. I'm not sure it's wise playing both Anderson and Broad given the latter's total inability to bat any more (don't see him lasting long against Rabada - bouncer, bouncer, yorker, out). And if Wood's fit, I'd want him in the team anyway.

As for my confidence in the England selectors, the thing that grates most is their inability to admit a mistake. Pope's selection as keeper was a mistake. We all saw it. Yet Ed Smith comes out with this:

"In the last 10 years that's the only last minute injury to a keeper. Jonny got injured in a different format in Sri Lanka, which brought about a change when Ben Foakes came in. But for it to happen at the 11th hour is very unlikely. But it was discussed and we were comfortable with Pope coming into the side if a last minute injury happened to Jos. We knew he was a very capable keeper."
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Moeen Ali 'by no means certain' to tour Sri Lanka - Ed Smith

That's treating people like idiots. Not cool, Ed. Not cool at all.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
Agree about Carberry - been mentioned many times on here, very rough treatment. And fwiw I think England are totally misguided and confused not having Foakes as the keeper in every test. But I thought it was misguided to have Stewart keeping instead of Russell. I think the stats on Stewart's batting and how it suffered back that up, but balance, it's all about balance.

And speaking of balance, it appears Moeen's stock is rising as he remains outside the team. Not going to SA, but perhaps going to Sri Lanka. For SA, no real surprises. Be very interesting to see selection if Anderson is fit. I'm not sure it's wise playing both Anderson and Broad given the latter's total inability to bat any more (don't see him lasting long against Rabada - bouncer, bouncer, yorker, out). And if Wood's fit, I'd want him in the team anyway.

As for my confidence in the England selectors, the thing that grates most is their inability to admit a mistake. Pope's selection as keeper was a mistake. We all saw it. Yet Ed Smith comes out with this:



Moeen Ali 'by no means certain' to tour Sri Lanka - Ed Smith

That's treating people like idiots. Not cool, Ed. Not cool at all.
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Don't know why you're obsessed with Broad's batting which has been shit for years (for an understandable reason). Bowlers who bat at 10 or 11 aren't picked for their ability to play the bouncer. Bowling-wise, after speed (Archer, Wood) and general wizardry (Anderson), height and a bit of guile (Broad) is the next best thing for SA pitches.

No problem with Moeen coming back for Sri Lanka if he's over the yips. About the only good thing Smith did was pack the side with three spinners last time there.

David Steele also selection shafted. Back in the 70s.
 
A tail of Archer-Leach-Anderson-Broad doesn't look good. It's fine to pick one or two bowlers who can't bat, but not so fine to pick four. The collapse in Broad's batting has cost England around 20 runs per match. That's a significant cost, and it means Broad's selection calculus is changed. I was delighted to see him do well in the summer, but he hasn't had a great couple of years with the ball, and was underwhelming in NZ (as was everybody else, of course). I would only pick him in SA if I was confident his speeds would be up. He's not like Anderson - he can't afford to lose those 2-3 mph, and every single one of his 'magic spells' has involved cranking it up to the high-80s.
 
Since the Ashes in Australia Broad has taken 72 wickets in 20 tests and reduced his average in that time - in a losing side. I don’t think Broad’s bowling has been as bad as suggested for the last couple of years. He’s been written off (on here) too early. He’s four years younger than Anderson and is not one I’d ever accuse of not trying - I’d still be picking him for a while yet.

And Archer can bat, even if his test career to date suggests otherwise. He averages 27 in first class cricket and I expect a few good knocks aren’t that far away in tests. He’s probably knackered batting for England as Root seems to think it’s alright to constantly overbowl him. That has to change.
 
I certainly would never accuse him of not trying, and he's done very well not to let the collapse in his batting form affect his bowling. But the speeds were way down in NZ. He was slower than Wagner and slower even than Southee. Again, not just him - Archer also - but he's not a bowler who can afford to let his speeds drop like that.

Collectively, something went badly wrong with England in NZ. That's what annoys me about all the positive vibes coming from Root and Smith and Giles. It's like they're talking about a completely different series from the one I watched.
 
Just woke up. 17-2. FFS. As if I didn’t know it would be 17-2. Waiting for Denly to get out now.
 
Good recovery from 17-2 tbf

Shame about the collapse. Jonny cleaned up again. Whatever it is he changed to become a force against the white ball, it's ruined him v the red.

Masterclass from Philander yet again. First spell 5-5-0-1. Another SA bowler set to jack tests in cos money. :(
 
Don't think much of the wicket tbh. Up and down by day 2. Batsmen may as well chance their arms. Match unlikely to reach day 4. I know NZ wickets were dead but this isn't good either. Makes batting a lottery.
 
Up and down, down and up? Haven’t seen today’s play so can’t really figure out what went on. Regardless, that’s a long tail and can’t see them winning.
 
Yeah. Average less than 35 now. Let's face it, we're back to the 90s. One or two useful bowlers but a pile of shite passing for a top order. After Root (48), next best average is Stokes 35. Bairstow's actually third on 34 - but finishes the calendar year with an average of 18. He's made himself unpickable tbh.

Going nowhere now. 11-1 in the last 10 overs. Feels like just a matter of time. But if these two can get the requirement below 100? Well Sri Lanka did it from a worse position last year...
 
Yep. 140-3 to 180 all out. That's what has lost the game in all likelihood. That said, it was a questionable decision to bowl first.

Buttler and Curran having a swing now. Why not? SA do have the scars.
 
Won’t be long now.

As well as the obvious collapse they let S Africa get 50 too many in each innings from good positions. Bearing in mind how shit our batting is, always vulnerable to collapse.
 
Excellent angry article by Dobell today, barely concealing his contempt for that cunt Graves.

Sobering numbers from this year.

So while England's bowlers will reflect that there were periods - particularly on the third morning - where they could have retained their lengths and composure somewhat better, they did, for only the second time in six away Tests, claim 20 wickets.

England's batting is probably even more of a concern. In the first innings they suffered a collapse in which they lost seven wickets for 39 runs; in the second a collapse of six for 46 runs. On nine occasions in 23 innings this year they have failed to make 200, and in three they have failed to make 90. Only once have they made 400 and only four times have they managed to score 300 in their first innings.
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That's seriously shite batting.

He also makes a good point about how many of England's last good batting line-up made runs on debut (nearly all of them). Yes, new players need to be given time, but they've been picked cos they are thought to be good. It's not unreasonable to hope for runs straight away from at least some of them.
 
Rory Burns out having damaged ankle ligaments...


Playing football :facepalm:

Does this mean yet another chance for Bairstow? (Assuming Pope is fit to start at 6) or a callow opening partnership of Crawley/Sibley?
 
Seriously shit batting continues. 260-9 after winning the toss on a flat pitch with not much venom to it. Digging in or taking the attack to the bowlers produced about the same result. Just come to expect it now. Worst England batting lineup in more than 20 years.

Compare and contrast with spit Australia, who just can't stop making huge scores at the moment. First test champs final pretty nailed on to be Aus v India.
 
I think that is highly possible.

Good bloke. Apparently. About the fifth best batsman for Lancashire last season, but good bloke.

Foakes has his mediocre form in one season of the CC held against him, while Jennings is asked to train with England. Makes very little sense.

I do think Foakes will be back in very soon. Buttler looks like he's decided he has to try his one-day game in tests. Not necessarily the wrong move, but it's probably odds-against working. Guptill tried it for NZ and it didn't help. It's probably a sign that his test career is nearly over.
 
This was the ground where both sides scored 600+ in their first innings last time. All a bit different here. Plenty of cracks in the pitch though, even on day one.

Good to see Jimmy working his magic with the (second) new ball. Twas ever thus.

Belated thanks to Broady for the yesterday's comedy dismissal. Can't find a clip for that but it's up there with Samit Patel's from a few years ago which never gets old. Cue Samit...

 
Unexpected good day. All good days are unexpected now. Didn't look good when Elgar was going but he really gave it away. Couple of excellent catches from Stokes out of the 4 he took. But really shaky batting line ups on both sides. I can see one of these two getting out very cheaply in this game. Let's hope it's not England.
 
Sibley at risk of carrying his bat here. Well I never.

Also, Stokes went from 0 to 26 runs in the time it took me to make a cup of coffee.
 
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