Drag Queen Story Times picketed by protestors who claim that it grooms children and promotes paedophilia

[stethoscope]

@smokedout and I did warn about this - trans people/rights as a wedge issue into wider attacks on LGBT people and beyond. Some of the UK 'gender critical' crowd were busy lauding the likes of Kellie Jay Keen as they attacked trans people, even though alliances were being made with the hard right, evangelical, and assorted fringe groups. And a reasonable number of onetime 'left wing feminists' seem to be increasingly happy to forge these dubious relationships too (or at least blindly look the other way on the reactionary and conservative politics of some of those), as long as it still means attacking trans but as I am not unsurprised about whatsoever, broader LGB community, drag queens, etc. I don't think the attacks on womens rights which we are seeing can be disconnected either.

A vocal minority, yes, but needs to be challenged all the same. I've had to cut myself off from a longtime (white, m/c - I think its relevant) feminist friend whom in five years has been 'radicalised', first going 'trans critical' but now voicing opposition to same-sex adoption amongst other things.

(posting this incidentally from what feels like a very inclusive Brighton Pride)

 

[8ball]

Heard from a good friend that a bunch of 'left wing feminists' are attending these demos against the DQST stuff. Urgh.

Is that on the “parody” grounds we were discussing earlier, or something else?

 

[8ball]

Given he's been arrested loads, how the fuck is he not injuncted or on bail conditions not to attend these things?

I think banning people from public ‘political activities’ in a very general sense on grounds of being a serial pain in the arse is something that might not be an unalloyed good.

 

[8ball]

@smokedout and I did warn about this - trans people/rights as a wedge issue into wider attacks on LGBT people and beyond. Some of the UK 'gender critical' crowd were busy lauding the likes of Kellie Jay Keen as they attacked trans people, even though alliances were being made with the hard right, evangelical, and assorted fringe groups. And a reasonable number of onetime 'left wing feminists' seem to be increasingly happy to forge these dubious relationships too (or at least blindly look the other way on the reactionary and conservative politics of some of those), as long as it still means attacking trans but as I am not unsurprised about whatsoever, broader LGB community, drag queens, etc. I don't think the attacks on womens rights which we are seeing can be disconnected either.

A vocal minority, yes, but needs to be challenged all the same. I've had to cut myself off from a longtime (white, m/c - I think its relevant) feminist friend whom in five years has been 'radicalised', first going 'trans critical' but now voicing opposition to same-sex adoption amongst other things.

(posting this incidentally from what feels like a very inclusive Brighton Pride)

Then you have the LGB Alliance..

 

[LDC]

Is that on the “parody” grounds we were discussing earlier, or something else?

As part of the demos against the DQST stuff.

I think banning people from public ‘political activities’ in a very general sense on grounds of being a serial pain in the arse is something that might not be an unalloyed good.

But since it happens lots to others I expressed surprise it hadn't happened to him. Yes it's not unproblematic, but would view it the same as banning anti-abortion protestors from being outside clinics for example.

 

[8ball]

As part of the demos against the DQST stuff.

I know, I meant in terms of the allegations of drag parodying femininity.

Or maybe on an anti-trans ticket (obv drag queens are not trans women, but they may be basing it on content in some of the stories, imagined or otherwise).

But since it happens lots to others I expressed surprise it hadn't happened to him. Yes it's not unproblematic, but would view it the same as banning anti-abortion protestors from being outside clinics for example.

I wasn’t aware we had banned anyone from all political activity regardless of the political cause they are supporting.

 

[LDC]

I wasn’t aware we had banned anyone from all political activity regardless of the political cause they are supporting.

No, luckily nobody suggested they had, nor that they should. 'Outside clinics' rather than not being able to protest at all. Anyway, it was a question, feel free to latch onto it and keep going on misunderstanding everything.

 

[LDC]

I know, I meant in terms of the allegations of drag parodying femininity.

I have no idea why they were there, but they shouldn't have been, no matter what their justification was.

 

[8ball]

No, luckily nobody suggested they had, nor that they should. 'Outside clinics' rather than not being able to protest at all. Anyway, it was a question, feel free to latch onto it and keep going on misunderstanding everything.

You said “how the hell is he not injuncted not to attend these things”.

Reads like “these things” includes the general array of things he’ll turn up to.

( )

 

[Edie]

Saw this as I drove past in town today. Made me wonder about what these culture wars. No longer really left v right but something else. Not really appropriate to bring children in on either side, but that seems to be the focus.

 

[mojo pixy]

People love to use kids as ethical shields, it stops them from having to articulate their actual objection but provides a pretext to amplify their self-righteousness anyway. It's ironic because the kids are almost always more resilient and tolerant than the adults doing the shouting.

 

[Edie]

People love to use kids as ethical shields, it stops them from having to articulate their actual objection but provides a pretext to amplify their self-righteousness anyway. It's ironic because the kids are almost always more resilient and tolerant than the adults doing the shouting.

This is true. On both sides.

 

[mojo pixy]

This is true. On both sides.

One "side" just wants to listen to a story though...

 

[8ball]

One "side" just wants to listen to a story though...

I’ve only ever seen Antifa outside the building.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Saw this as I drove past in town today. Made me wonder about what these culture wars. No longer really left v right but something else. Not really appropriate to bring children in on either side, but that seems to be the focus.

People attending DQSH didn't try and drag their kids into any kind of culture war, they just brought their kids to a nice fun thing. Then some nazis turned up and made the nice fun thing into a culture war. How are both sides equivalent in that situation? Should people just not bring their kids to anything nazis object to? Because I don't think that would resolve the issue, I think it would massively empower the nazis.

 

[Raheem]

Bad people on both sides.

 

[8ball]

Bad people on both sides.

Not sure how many sides there are at this point.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Bad people on both sides.

I'm happy to go out on a limb here and say that one side has worse people.

 

[mojo pixy]

I’ve only ever seen Antifa outside the building.

Fair enough, it's within the bounds of possibility that Antifa folks weren't in fact there to hear a story. I suspect they also didn't bring kids, but I'd accept correction since I was not there (never been to one of these but I'm fairly sure if pushed to be on one side or another, I've got the wherewithal to make a reasonably clear-headed choice)

 

[Edie]

People attending DQSH didn't try and drag their kids into any kind of culture war, they just brought their kids to a nice fun thing. Then some nazis turned up and made the nice fun thing into a culture war. How are both sides equivalent in that situation? Should people just not bring their kids to anything nazis object to? Because I don't think that would resolve the issue, I think it would massively empower the nazis.

This isn’t an apolitical thing. You can’t see that because you are in a bubble.

 

[Raheem]

Maybe there can be a compromise deal where you can have your drag queens but they have to read Harry Potter.

 

[cesare]

Saw this as I drove past in town today. Made me wonder about what these culture wars. No longer really left v right but something else. Not really appropriate to bring children in on either side, but that seems to be the focus.

You're floating that these are "culture wars" rather than there are actual hard right fascists that some gender critical feminists are aligning themselves with?

 

[cesare]

Will no-one think of the children!!!!

 

[SpookyFrank]

Not sure how many sides there are at this point.

Basically you've got kids, who want a fun day out. Then a happy-go-lucky alliance of white nationalists, conspiraloons, transphobes and non-aligned whackjobs who think the fun day out is actually an attempt to recruit kids into a trans cult which, unlike say the white nationalist or conspiraloon cults, doesn't exist. Then you've got all sorts of people who, for some reason, don't like it when white nationalists, transphobes, conspiraloons or indeed anyone bursts in on a fun event for kids and starts screaming hateful garbage about things likely to be distressing to young children. Then you've got your just-asking-questions, but-you're-not-allowed-to-say-that (except everywhere on the internet, live on breakfast television, on stage at the tory party conference or in opinion pieces in any of the national newspapers) gender criticals who don't particularly like ending up on the same side of the argument as the cranks' coalition but who don't dislike it enough to consider changing any of their views, and who therefore hope to bury the whole thing under a snowdrift of whataboutery and false equivalence.

So really pretty simple.

 

[frogwoman]

I gotta say I sympathise with the arguments about bringing kids to political stuff, it's not something I'm altogether comfortable myself. But I don't really think an event like this is political at all tbh. You might as well say that about every kids book after Enid Blyton

 

[SpookyFrank]

This isn’t an apolitical thing. You can’t see that because you are in a bubble.

You're the one claiming there's no left and right in it any more, even as honest-to-god white supremacists line up outside.

 

[mojo pixy]

This isn’t an apolitical thing. You can’t see that because you are in a bubble.

Everything is political, literally everything. Having libraries at all, what books they carry, who gets to run events there, how those are promoted or objected to. Where the cafe's stock comes from, how the staff get to work and how much they earn, it's all political isn't it.

I don't see crowds of people protesting for more libraries, so it's obviously a question of priorities. Protesting for more and better stocked libraries just isn't as cool as noisily trying to fuck up events happening at the libraries there already are (on tiktok too obvs, would this shit be happening without tiktok? I doubt it but whatever). Maybe we'll eventually see some group or another campaigning for libraries to be closed or limited, to prevent all this kind of thing? I don't expect it, but it wouldn't surprise me either.

I don't know, I don't even have any skin in this game except for having a kid who might attend something like this. It does very much look like an unholy alliance to me.

 

[Edie]

You're floating that these are "culture wars" rather than there are actual hard right fascists that some gender critical feminists are aligning themselves with?

Honestly? I think anyone outside of this looks on with a wtf expression. Why do drag queens need to read to kids? Why do freedom of the land anti vaxxer England First types give a shit? It’s weird. It’s like the liberal left and the nutcase alliance on the other side are both so out of touch they can’t see themselves.

 

[cesare]

Honestly? I think anyone outside of this looks on with a wtf expression. Why do drag queens need to read to kids? Why do freedom of the land anti vaxxer England First types give a shit? It’s weird. It’s like the liberal left and the nutcase alliance on the other side are both so out of touch they can’t see themselves.

You're not outside of this.

 

[8ball]

Basically you've got kids, who want a fun day out. Then a happy-go-lucky alliance of white nationalists, conspiraloons, transphobes and non-aligned whackjobs who think the fun day out is actually an attempt to recruit kids into a trans cult which, unlike say the white nationalist or conspiraloon cults, doesn't exist. Then you've got all sorts of people who, for some reason, don't like it when white nationalists, transphobes, conspiraloons or indeed anyone bursts in on a fun event for kids and starts screaming hateful garbage about things likely to be distressing to young children. Then you've got your just-asking-questions, but-you're-not-allowed-to-say-that (except everywhere on the internet, live on breakfast television, on stage at the tory party conference or in opinion pieces in any of the national newspapers) gender criticals who don't particularly like ending up on the same side of the argument as the cranks' coalition but who don't dislike it enough to consider changing any of their views, and who therefore hope to bury the whole thing under a snowdrift of whataboutery and false equivalence.

So really pretty simple.

… and the kids’ parents.