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Drag Queen Story Times picketed by protestors who claim that it grooms children and promotes paedophilia

mojo pixy said:
Everything is political, literally everything. Having libraries at all, what books they carry, who gets to run events there, how those are promoted or objected to. Where the cafe's stock comes from, how the staff get to work and how much they earn, it's all political isn't it.

I don't see crowds of people protesting for more libraries, so it's obviously a question of priorities. Protesting for more and better stocked libraries just isn't as cool as noisily trying to fuck up events happening at the libraries there already are (on tiktok too obvs, would this shit be happening without tiktok? I doubt it but whatever). Maybe we'll eventually see some group or another campaigning for libraries to be closed or limited, to prevent all this kind of thing? I don't expect it, but it wouldn't surprise me either.

I don't know, I don't even have any skin in this game except for having a kid who might attend something like this. It does very much look like an unholy alliance to me.
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I have no idea what’s happening on TikTok and suspect it’s best to stay that way.
 
Edie said:
Honestly? I think anyone outside of this looks on with a wtf expression. Why do drag queens need to read to kids? Why do freedom of the land anti vaxxer England First types give a shit? It’s weird. It’s like the liberal left and the nutcase alliance on the other side are both so out of touch they can’t see themselves.
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I get where you're coming from, but I think the DQST thing isn't coming from that bubble, it's just something that happens culturally/in society. For sure plenty of people will look and not get why or it seems unappealing to them, but that's just standard we're all into different things stuff, nothing to do with any left bubble. Similar to me looking at panto, jazz or opera and being like wtf, that's weird.

But from that the right and the loon alliance that's been mentioned has decided to attack it for all the reasons stated. And that needs stopping, so while it might look like a weird bubble of left/right arguing over something that's only important to them it's not - it's a right wing attack on wider society using this as both a specific target and also as a representation of what they're against more widely.
 
SpookyFrank said:
Imagine twitter or youtube with the same hellish algorithms but almost no moderation.
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Sounds like a fun and engaging place where the open marketplace of ideas would lead to harmony, world peace and possibly fully-automated luxury communism.

I’ll stay away from it for now, though, just in case.
 
8ball said:
I know, I meant in terms of the allegations of drag parodying femininity.

Or maybe on an anti-trans ticket (obv drag queens are not trans women, but they may be basing it on content in some of the stories, imagined or otherwise).
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The gender critical line on this is that drag queens are highly sexualised and misogynist parodies of women and that Drag Queen Story Time is an attempt to groom children into believing in Gender Ideology and Queer Theory - which is an organised clandestine attempt to encourage children to mutilate their bodies as well as 'queer' society into normalising paedophilia. Another common objection is that drag queens are autogynephiles* who are sexually aroused by these performances.

*autogynephilia being the heavily criticised theory of Ray Blanchard which claimed that trans women who were sexually orientated towards women were motivated to be trans by a 'target location error' which caused them to be sexually aroused by the idea of themselves as women rather than be aroused by other women. Under this theory it is impossible for someone solely orientated towards to men - as many drag queens are - to be an autogynephile, however the gender criticals have declared Blanchard is wrong and that almost trans women are driven by this paraphilia regardless of sexual orientation. This split happened after a public row in which Blanchard claimed autogynephilia was an innate sexual orientation rather than something which people catch from watching sissy porn as eminent scholar Graham Lineham had argued.

The end result is that many gender criticals have declared that any trace of femininity in those assigned male at birth is not just evidence of a paraphilia but an attempt to involve those around them non-consensually in a sexual fetish. The original call to trans women to 'just be a man in a dress' has now changed to an accusation that any man in a dress in public is literally sexually assaulting anyone who happens to see them. In some areas of gender critical thought there is now no place for gender non-conformity of any kind amongst those assigned male. In fact it should be a cause for suspicion and is evidence of a paraphilia.
 
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smokedout said:
The gender critical line on this is that drag queens are highly sexualised and misogynist parodies of women and that Drag Queen Story Time is an attempt to groom children into believing in Gender Ideology and Queer Theory - which is an organised clandestine attempt to encourage children to mutilate their bodies as well as 'queer' society into normalising paedophilia. Another common objection is that drag queens are autogynephiles* who are sexually aroused by these performances.

*autogynephilia being the heavily criticised theory of Ray Blanchard which claimed that trans women who were sexually orientated towards women were motivated by a 'target location error' which caused them to be sexually aroused by the idea of themselves as women rather than be aroused by other women. Under this theory it is impossible for someone solely orientated towards to men - as many drag queens are - to be an autogynephile, however the gender criticals have declared Blanchard is wrong and that almost trans women are driven by this paraphilia regardless of sexual orientation. This split happened after a public row in which Blanchard claimed autogynephilia was an innate sexual orientation rather than something which people catch from watching sissy porn as eminent scholar Graham Lineham had argued.

The end result is that many gender criticals have declared that any trace of femininity in those assigned male at birth is not just evidence of a paraphilia but an attempt to involve those around them non-consensually in a sexual fetish. The original call to trans women to 'just be a man in a dress' has now changed to an accusation that any man in a dress in public is literally sexually assaulting anyone who happens to see them. In some areas of gender critical thought there is now no place for gender non-conformity of any kind amongst those assigned male. In fact it should be a cause for suspicion and is evidence of a paraphilia.
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Thanks - so it seems a bit of what I said and a bit of a kind of “spillover gender policing”.
 
Edie said:
Where do I stand on it then cesare as you are seemingly so sure?
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At the risk of butting in … I think you may be suggesting that DQSH is not simply about kids having fun with a colourful character in a manner most reasonable people would agree to be apolitical.
 
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8ball said:
Which has been a far-right touchstone all along. Would be a surprise if they didn’t take the opportunity to make hay from it.
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Indeed - it's quite a coup to get from 'equal rights and people can express themselves however they like' to 'men aesthetically expressing anything traditionally marked "feminine" are being misogynist/wearing "womanface"'
 
I don't think I would have taken my grand-daughter to a dragqueen story telling, but would definitely have been a lot more on board with going to a drag king event because GDD is fighting her own adolescent rearguard battle with objectification, commodification and appearances around her own emerging sexuality...although she is 11 and would probably tell me to fuck off if I suggested any sort of story telling event. I have all sorts of issues with gender - how it is policed and displayed, but would be honestly appalled to ally myself with the sort of RW protesters at a DQST,.
All identity politics tend to break down into smaller and smaller affiliations and I have no truck with the sort of 'O, you think this so you must agree with that' kind of simplifications which are frequently evoked on the internet, including on here.
 
BTW, I'm going to a talk at the Roundhouse with a panel of drag kings the week after next with oldest, who wanted to go. Looking forward to it - it's free, if anyone's interested

What's on | Roundhouse

Browse our calendar, find out what's on and buy tickets for the latest live music gigs, theatre, circus, cabaret and spoken word events at the Roundhouse
www.roundhouse.org.uk www.roundhouse.org.uk
 
Cloo said:
BTW, I'm going to a talk at the Roundhouse with a panel of drag kings the week after next with oldest, who wanted to go. Looking forward to it - it's free, if anyone's interested

What's on | Roundhouse

Browse our calendar, find out what's on and buy tickets for the latest live music gigs, theatre, circus, cabaret and spoken word events at the Roundhouse
www.roundhouse.org.uk www.roundhouse.org.uk
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Bit out of my way, but something I know practically nothing about (think I saw something on TV quite a few years ago).
 
Edie said:
Saw this as I drove past in town today. Made me wonder about what these culture wars. No longer really left v right but something else. Not really appropriate to bring children in on either side, but that seems to be the focus.
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The culture wars still has a significant left-right dimension. There are other, somewhat related angles too though, such as liberal or progressive vs socially conservative. And the mainstream direction of travel of 'acceptable values' vs those who want to push back in the other direction after many years of being on the losing side. There is also a generational/generation gap component. And then the various other things that can feed into any of those fronts when it comes to individuals beliefs and influences, eg religious or certain highly specific strands of radical feminism or other ideologies.

And inevitably the combination of these different things leave this stuff meaning different things to different people, and creates a mess. And there is no doubt that all sorts of people with all sorts of agendas smell the opportunity in joining in what some label as the culture wars. They may see this as an opportunity to gain traction in a way their cause has not been able to for a long time. They may see it as an opportunity to push back against the mainstream direction of travel, and when it comes to conspiracy theorists they can equate the mainstream acceptable values with the elite forces whose agendas they are paranoid about. On the overtly party political front, some are just using it to energise their base and to fill in a void left by them having little else to offer - the tories are certainly indulging in that form of it these days, they think they've found a dog whistle they can get away with.

When this stuff first manifested as the 'culture wars' I was able to look on the bright side, that those attitudes, the pushback and the framing of stuff as culture wars and woke etc was happening in that form because of how many big, mainstream battles the socially conservative and unequal opportunities side had lost in recent decades, relegating their agenda to the margins. However things have gotten messier since then, and they've had some momentum via the framing of this stuff as a culture war, and other opportunists have been trying to get in on the act with increasing frequency. So I'm not complacent about what will happen over the next period. I suspect that certain hard-won rights in their broadest sense will be hard to undo in this country, eg same sex marriage and more people feeling able to come out at a younger age. But if the regressive forces cannot get their way on those central issues, they will try harder to erode the rights of those who are still in a somewhat precarious situation when it comes to enjoying full protection and acceptance. And its really not surprising that one of the battlegrounds involves the information and values that are shared with young people as part of their education and upbringing.
 
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I recognised Laura Towler and Sam Melia (he had a megaphone that nobody could hear cos we drowned it out).
Not sure I’d recognise Dankula
 
elbows said:
And inevitably the combination of these different things leave this stuff meaning different things to different people, and creates a mess. And there is no doubt that all sorts of people with all sorts of agendas smell the opportunity in joining in what some label as the culture wars. They may see this as an opportunity to gain traction in a way their cause has not been able to for a long time. They may see it as an opportunity to push back against the mainstream direction of travel, and when it comes to conspiracy theorists they can equate the mainstream acceptable values with the elite forces whose agendas they are paranoid about. On the overtly party political front, some are just using it to energise their base and to fill in a void left by them having little else to offer - the tories are certainly indulging in that form of it these days, they think they've found a dog whistle they can get away with.
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Plus it's a great distraction tool for the Right: 'The cult of wokeness is a threat to our Great British Culture' they say, while creating an atmosphere that sees humanities degrees cut or cancelled because they 'don't lead to good jobs', for example. And it's part of this whole move towards a politics of 'making things worse for people your supporters don't like' (women, immigrants, poor people, people of colour, LGBTQ+ people) - because that's a piece of piss compared to making life better for anyone, and generally it saves money rather than costing.
 
frogwoman said:
I gotta say I sympathise with the arguments about bringing kids to political stuff, it's not something I'm altogether comfortable myself. But I don't really think an event like this is political at all tbh. You might as well say that about every kids book after Enid Blyton
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I got taken along in my pram to everything from marches against the Vietnam war and the Heath Government to Aldermasterton. Never did me any harm...
 
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