8ball
AV REFUGEES WELCOME
The dab, the floss, the two-minute auto-asphyxiation…
Drag Queen Story Times picketed by protestors who claim that it grooms children and promotes paedophilia
- Thread starter Orang Utan
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The dab, the floss, the two-minute auto-asphyxiation…
Dystopiary
putting up a hook to hang my hopes upon
Wish there was a
smiley reaction.
8ball
AV REFUGEES WELCOME
People who say that are often suffering from the wishful thinking that the young will grow up to echo their own preferences and prejudices. It’s just self-flattery.
I’m old enough to have seen this stuff the first time it came round.
What they’ll actually be is people, complicated and difficult people like people have always been, and set against each other by class and a bunch of other nonsense.
What they’re reflecting right at this time is what they’ve been fed. If there is hope to be found, we’ll see it in 20 years or so when what they produce is actually coming from them.
Right now we’re just squabbling over ideas from the last millennium while everything catches fire around us, so let’s hope they do better, eh? We haven’t exactly given them the best legacy.
They may see us as dinosaurs for reasons that we have never thought of, that will come as a total surprise to us.
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8ball
AV REFUGEES WELCOME
Wish there was a
I’m not dissing a whole generation, as I hope my last post makes clear. They’ve got an uphill battle and that Tiktok shite is not of their making.
It’s good that some seem to be showing decency because some of this tech has made cruelty a hell of a lot easier.
friendofdorothy
Solidarity against neoliberalism!
I was raised in a climate of extreme gender ideology. There 2 socially acceptable options - married hetrosexuality or religious celibacy. Dressing in very gendered ways was compulsory and rigourly enforced in schools, workplaces and in public, females in frocks and males in trousers.
The schools and libraries only presented hetronormative ideology Don't think I read a book with a lesbian character (or any lgbtq characters) till I was in my 20s in the early 80s and the arrival of Virago and Womens Press books.
Despite this, men dressing up in womens clothes was a mainstay of TV throughout my childhood (two Ronnies, Monty Phython, Danny La Rue etc). Panto was, and still is, an annual tradition of Best Boys and Pantomime Dames with outrageous costumes and rude innuendo. Larry Grayson and Mr Humphries were the only 'queer' characters on TV (Danny La Rue was presented as straight) Someone asked me today who were my rolemodels growing up - there were none.
Somehow despite all this, I still managed to grow up to be queer. Phew!
The schools and libraries only presented hetronormative ideology Don't think I read a book with a lesbian character (or any lgbtq characters) till I was in my 20s in the early 80s and the arrival of Virago and Womens Press books.
Despite this, men dressing up in womens clothes was a mainstay of TV throughout my childhood (two Ronnies, Monty Phython, Danny La Rue etc). Panto was, and still is, an annual tradition of Best Boys and Pantomime Dames with outrageous costumes and rude innuendo. Larry Grayson and Mr Humphries were the only 'queer' characters on TV (Danny La Rue was presented as straight) Someone asked me today who were my rolemodels growing up - there were none.
Somehow despite all this, I still managed to grow up to be queer. Phew!
spring-peeper
Well-Known Member
I think the difference is due, in part, to the parenting.
I taught my children to accept people for who they were. When a transgender moved into our house, the children had no issue with calling our guest Allison instead of Alec.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
As opposed to the constant but silent gender indoctrination we all received at school, which is so rarely mentioned by people who bring up the slightest hint of information about lgbt+ sexualities and genders as massive indoctrination
8ball
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Puddy_Tat
naturally fluffy
and liberace successfully sued one of the UK tabloids in the 60s when it said something that could have been read as hinting that he might possibly be anything other than heterosexual
friendofdorothy
Solidarity against neoliberalism!
As did Jason Donavan in the 80s or was it the 90s
8ball
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friendofdorothy
Solidarity against neoliberalism!
allegedly
The interesting point was how much Donovan misjudged it. When Liberace sued, being 'accused' of being gay was career suicide.
When Donovan sued, times had changed. It made him look like he was homophobic and it screwed up his career.
(And I've no idea if Donovan is gay or not and don't care either way.)
8ball
AV REFUGEES WELCOME
Donovan was most likely, in my view, badly advised. He was also an icon for teen girls at a time when even talk of a girlfriend (a non-Kylie one in his case, at least), could hit a record company’s coffers hard.
Remember that George Michael was yet to come out for another six years.
<time passes…>
Robbie Williams then sued on the same grounds 13 years later. He was a good deal older than Donovan was at the time. He had also been merrily making allusions of ambiguity about his sexuality to keep up press interest.
Times really had changed by this point.
So I’m inclined to give Donovan a pass on this one, on balance.
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Leighsw2
strictly off the record
Re. Jason Donovan. It was the time of Outrage and 'outing'. People were putting up 'Queer as Fuck' posters, some of which had his picture on. The Pink Paper reported on this and then got sued. Many people thought that was a bit off! (At least that's my recollection.)
I must have missed the Robbie Williams case though. Maybe nobody cared by then.
I must have missed the Robbie Williams case though. Maybe nobody cared by then.
8ball
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It was The Face magazine that he sued (I mean Donovan, Williams sued The People).
“Outing” was an odd thing, haven’t thought about that in a long time.
<thinking aloud follows..>
The people being outed weren’t people who had nothing to lose from it. They were being outed because they were benefiting from staying in the closet.
Can see how it’s a bit tricky if you are outed on false grounds.
</ thinking aloud>
After winning the case, Donovan waived the damages because he didn’t want to bankrupt the magazine (they weren’t in great shape financially).
I think his right to set the record straight is probably less shaky than the right of activists to destroy the privacy of some and make false allegations of others.
<That's maybe not my final answer.>
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two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
Not sure that's how I'd phrase it - more that they would have suffered from being outed from the closet.
8ball
AV REFUGEES WELCOME
I think my version was a little more morally sympathetic to those doing the outing, but either works.
Leighsw2
strictly off the record
Ah yes, The Face. Though I could have sworn he sued the Pink Paper as well. Still, it's 30 years ago - I'm amazed I can remember anything that far back!
Or he could've just shrugged and let it be.
Big difference socially and legally between 1959 when Liberace sued the Mirror and 1992 when Donovan sued the Face. As I'm sure you know.
Really can't be arsed arguing with you just because you like arguing so I'm out.
8ball
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I have a lot of sympathy with that view.
Don't know how old you are, but things were pretty different at the time and I remember quite heated arguments about it.
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