Drag Queen Story Times picketed by protestors who claim that it grooms children and promotes paedophilia

[Puddy_Tat]

Aside of course from people like politicians who are themselves gay but harass gay people in public for the votes.

I think that was the main target of the 'outing' thing - politicians, journalists, bishops and the like who were being outwardly homophobic

I'm not quite sure where the thing with jason donovan came in - i wasn't aware of him being homophobic

 

[8ball]

I think that was the main target of the 'outing' thing - politicians, journalists, bishops and the like who were being outwardly homophobic.

Yes, that's how it was for the most part as I remember it.

 

[two sheds]

Yep, quite, I'm 69, and anyone coming out even now will get grief from some cunt somewhere. It must have been fucking horrendous a few years ago.

I admire people who have come out, they're stronger than I'd be under those circumstances, but anyone who doesn't want to then that's fine as far as I can see. A bit like smoking spliff - perhaps people who smoke spliff should come out of the closet and declare it for the benefit of spliff smokers everywhere but then you've got the risk of being busted for doing something pretty harmless.

I'd add churchmen to politicians by the way, as Puddy_Tat commented.

 

[xenon]

Liberace was gay though wasn’t he? Was it a Streisand effect? in the unenlightened 80s, gay as Liberace, candelabra, etc. I can’t comment what was going on in the 50s.

 

[petee]

I think that was the main target of the 'outing' thing - politicians, journalists, bishops and the like who were being outwardly homophobic

not the only target though. there was a bad case here in the states, a college basketball hero who was "outed" as part of a campaign by a prominent magazine which may have been the Advocate to out closeted people. (their front pages were notorious but the internet isn't giving me examples.) but he wasn't gay. he had a heavy-lidded, stereotypical look, and was a very close friend with another player. he wasn't homophobic either. he's still neither gay nor homophobic. it was i thought a shit move, and it brought into high relief the "i know my own life thanks" vs "my cause is so just that you should allow yourself to be used for it" dichotomy.

why yes it still triggers me 30 years later.

 

[8ball]

he wasn't homophobic either. he's still neither gay nor homophobic.

You mean the reaction to his denial was to accuse him of homophobia?

 

[petee]

You mean the reaction to his denial was to accuse him of homophobia?

the reaction to his denial was mockery.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Or he could've just shrugged and let it be.

Or he could've made his own decisions about his own life. You know, the way anyone should be able to.

 

[two sheds]

This is where these cunts are headed when they've finished with Story Times

Boston Children's Hospital warns employees over far-right online harassment campaign

The hospital became the target in recent weeks of activists who made a variety of false claims about medical treatment provided to young transgender people.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[8ball]

This is where these cunts are headed when they've finished with Story Times

Boston Children's Hospital warns employees over far-right online harassment campaign

The hospital became the target in recent weeks of activists who made a variety of false claims about medical treatment provided to young transgender people.

www.nbcnews.com

That Matt Walsh is pure cancer.

 

[bellaozzydog]

but he wasn't gay. he had a heavy-lidded, stereotypical look,

Not a call out or trap. But what does that mean ?

 

[8ball]

Not a call out or trap. But what does that mean ?

Oh, not just me getting confused by that, then.

I think it might be that “almost looks like you’re wearing eyeliner” look, but I’m guessing based on GIS.

 

[friendofdorothy]

Re. Jason Donovan. It was the time of Outrage and 'outing'. People were putting up 'Queer as Fuck' posters, some of which had his picture on. The Pink Paper reported on this and then got sued. Many people thought that was a bit off! (At least that's my recollection.)

I must have missed the Robbie Williams case though. Maybe nobody cared by then.

I took part in a few Outrage demos in early 90s. Don't recall Outrage actually outing anyone. Recall Peter Tatchell inviting gay bishops and other politicians (who had voted for clause 28 or against lowering the male age of consent) to be honest , stop being so hypocritical and come out. He didn't name anyone - the mainsteam press did that while condeming Tatchell for the very idea. The press loved outing people all the time - actors, musicians, ordinary people. Gay vicar stories were a mainstay of NotW and the Sun.

Names and addresses of men appearing in court regularly appeared in local rags for offenses that no longer exist (eg unlaw sex with an underage person ie a 20year gay man; soliticiting for immoral purposes ie chatting someone up in public) Imagine the devastation that caused to people with no funds to hide behind libel cases. Being lgbtq could get you eveicted, sacked, refused service or disowned by your family or community.

The crowd sang 'Lilley is a mary, na na na na naa! Portillo is a poofer, na na na na naa!' in age of consent demos outside parliament - it was widely known beleived that loads of Thatchers govt, including William Haig (allegedly) were closet queers, but the true blue papers protected them.

 

[friendofdorothy]

Indeed. Think of the good Liberace could have done by taking one for the team.

Also, when he sued he was actually lying, as well as damaging the gay community.

Dont forget having male homosex was still actually illegal - a criminal offence for which men were imprisioned, in USA and UK. It wasn't until 1967 that it was partially decriminalised here - it was only legal for men over age 21 and in private (a shared flat, a hotel room or a caravan was not private) Think laws varied state by state in the US. Liberace 'taking one for the team' would have done as much good as Oscar Wilde's honesty did for him, he too could have died peniless in obscurity after imprisonment had broken him.

 

[8ball]

Dont forget having male homosex was still actually illegal - a criminal offence for which men were imprisioned, in USA and UK. It wasn't until 1967 that it was partially decriminalised here - it was only legal for men over age 21 and in private (a shared flat, a hotel room or a caravan was not private) Think laws varied state by state in the US. Liberace 'taking one for the team' would have done as much good as Oscar Wilde's honesty did for him, he too could have died peniless in obscurity after imprisonment had broken him.

Certainly wouldn’t have done much good for him…

Fair point about OutRage! not actually doing the outing (easy to read it that way, especially with the name of the group). There was dissent in the group over actual outing, and the outings were done by a splinter group with a different name.

Plus the press dove in too, as you say.

 

[friendofdorothy]

Big difference socially and legally between 1959 when Liberace sued the Mirror and 1992 when Donovan sued the Face. As I'm sure you know.

Yes true. Sure being lgbtq was becoming more socially acceptable in the 90s but it was slow progress. Being queer was still not acceptable and we were still scum of the earth. The WHO still classified us as mentally ill. Section 28 prevented schools and local authorities 'promoting' homosexuality and our families were called 'pretended' in law. Very few celebs were 'out'

A gov poll in the 80s showed that most people thought that homosexuality was mostly or always wrong. As a god's own plod, Anderton said in 1986 we were 'swirling around in a human cesspit of their own making' Clubs were raided and people were arrested for dancing with others of the same gender under an obscure victorian law. Pretty policemen were use to entrap men in public toilets. More men were arrested for consensual sexual activity in years after 1967 than before.

By the 90s lgbt programmes were beginning to appear on tv, one or two actors like Ian McKellan were out and gay bars began to have clear windows and open doors.

 

[hitmouse]

Bolton today was a bit fucking stressful, started off with a few people, probably less than ten, on the queer/antifascist side versus maybe 20-30 on the other, with the demographics obviously skewing a bit more towards youngish queer kids on one side and scary men on the other. Given that situation, I would've avoided getting gobby with anyone, not everyone on our side felt the same though. Still, our numbers slowly grew over the course of the day and theirs eventually wore down. Weird mix of people: antivaxxers definitely the most prominent element, a few oldschool EDL-style casuals, a few muslims. Definitely not all fascists but there were some proper full-on nazis there who went ballistic on hearing that someone on our side was Jewish, were giving out "ban the bris" leaflets with hooked-nose cartoons on (not sure what drag queens have to do with circumcision, but then I wouldn't have thought they had that much to do with 5G or vaccines either, clearly I have a lot to learn), at some points started going on about how when Hitler came to power he'd closed down the child brothels, that sort of thing.
Was nice getting thanked by some of the parents. Some memorably odd conversations, one of the antivaxxer types started questioning the number of stripes on the rainbow flag so someone started talking about Isaac Newton, and he started shouting about how he doesn't want to hear anything about Newton because Newton was a freemason. Apparently one of them went around trying to engage each copper in turn in a conversation about the microchips in the vaccines. Pretty sure everyone managed to get home safely. Been a while since I've been told to do my own research that much.

 

[tim]

Some memorably odd conversations, one of the antivaxxer types started questioning the number of stripes on the rainbow flag so someone started talking about Isaac Newton, and he started shouting about how he doesn't want to hear anything about Newton because Newton was a freemason.

How do these people keep their apples in their lunch boxes?

Anyway, you deserve some of those "Hero of Urban" points.

 

[ddraig]

Solidarity hitmouse
Tried to engage a few of them when they were here but it was a counterproductive headfuck!

 

[brogdale]

Bolton today was a bit fucking stressful, started off with a few people, probably less than ten, on the queer/antifascist side versus maybe 20-30 on the other, with the demographics obviously skewing a bit more towards youngish queer kids on one side and scary men on the other. Given that situation, I would've avoided getting gobby with anyone, not everyone on our side felt the same though. Still, our numbers slowly grew over the course of the day and theirs eventually wore down. Weird mix of people: antivaxxers definitely the most prominent element, a few oldschool EDL-style casuals, a few muslims. Definitely not all fascists but there were some proper full-on nazis there who went ballistic on hearing that someone on our side was Jewish, were giving out "ban the bris" leaflets with hooked-nose cartoons on (not sure what drag queens have to do with circumcision, but then I wouldn't have thought they had that much to do with 5G or vaccines either, clearly I have a lot to learn), at some points started going on about how when Hitler came to power he'd closed down the child brothels, that sort of thing.
Was nice getting thanked by some of the parents. Some memorably odd conversations, one of the antivaxxer types started questioning the number of stripes on the rainbow flag so someone started talking about Isaac Newton, and he started shouting about how he doesn't want to hear anything about Newton because Newton was a freemason. Apparently one of them went around trying to engage each copper in turn in a conversation about the microchips in the vaccines. Pretty sure everyone managed to get home safely. Been a while since I've been told to do my own research that much.

Good stuff hitmouse

 

[Puddy_Tat]

one or two actors like Ian McKellan were out

when gorden kaye came out in the mid 80s (which he only did because the 'sun' was about to 'out' him so he decided to go to the 'mirror' and tell his side of it first) there was at least one tory MP asked a question in the house whether he should be 'cancelled' from playing the lead in that bastion of family values 'allo allo'

and have a vague recollection of a 'blue peter' presenter getting sacked when it was found out he was gay (or bi) in the 80s.

'cancel culture' isn't new...

 

[Leighsw2]

Yes true. Sure being lgbtq was becoming more socially acceptable in the 90s but it was slow progress. Being queer was still not acceptable and we were still scum of the earth. The WHO still classified us as mentally ill. Section 28 prevented schools and local authorities 'promoting' homosexuality and our families were called 'pretended' in law. Very few celebs were 'out'

A gov poll in the 80s showed that most people thought that homosexuality was mostly or always wrong. As a god's own plod, Anderton said in 1986 we were 'swirling around in a human cesspit of their own making' Clubs were raided and people were arrested for dancing with others of the same gender under an obscure victorian law. Pretty policemen were use to entrap men in public toilets. More men were arrested for consensual sexual activity in years after 1967 than before.

By the 90s lgbt programmes were beginning to appear on tv, one or two actors like Ian McKellan were out and gay bars began to have clear windows and open doors.

This is all true. But ... recently, one of my oldest friends sadly died. We've been going through all his (and my) old photos going way back to when I first met him (1985) and it's brought back a lot of memories of the great times, fabulous nights out, gorgeous men, dancing the night away in clubs and bars the length and breadth of this benighted country. The 1980s was hell, but it was also quite a party. Actually, I don't regret any of it!

 

[izz]

Solidarity hitmouse
Tried to engage a few of them when they were here but it was a counterproductive headfuck!

This is the essence of it all now isn't it ? Logical, rational people, accustomed to logical, rational debate, haven't a hope in hell when it comes to random, scattergun, emotionally-driven nonsense. We need to create some emotionally-driven, spurious counter-arguments but it's beyond me.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

DON'T BE AFRAID TO LET OTHER PEOPLE DO RESEARCH FOR YOU! YOU'RE TIRED, THE WORLD IS CONFUSING. YOU NEED A HUG.

 

[bemused]

Bolton today was a bit fucking stressful, started off with a few people, probably less than ten, on the queer/antifascist side versus maybe 20-30 on the other, with the demographics obviously skewing a bit more towards youngish queer kids on one side and scary men on the other. Given that situation, I would've avoided getting gobby with anyone, not everyone on our side felt the same though. Still, our numbers slowly grew over the course of the day and theirs eventually wore down. Weird mix of people: antivaxxers definitely the most prominent element, a few oldschool EDL-style casuals, a few muslims. Definitely not all fascists but there were some proper full-on nazis there who went ballistic on hearing that someone on our side was Jewish, were giving out "ban the bris" leaflets with hooked-nose cartoons on (not sure what drag queens have to do with circumcision, but then I wouldn't have thought they had that much to do with 5G or vaccines either, clearly I have a lot to learn), at some points started going on about how when Hitler came to power he'd closed down the child brothels, that sort of thing.
Was nice getting thanked by some of the parents. Some memorably odd conversations, one of the antivaxxer types started questioning the number of stripes on the rainbow flag so someone started talking about Isaac Newton, and he started shouting about how he doesn't want to hear anything about Newton because Newton was a freemason. Apparently one of them went around trying to engage each copper in turn in a conversation about the microchips in the vaccines. Pretty sure everyone managed to get home safely. Been a while since I've been told to do my own research that much.

Maybe you lot should start reading the children's book for them, sounds like they need the help.

 

[NoXion]

Maybe you lot should start reading the children's book for them, sounds like they need the help.

I think this is actually a fantastic idea. Show them a copy of the book being read to the kids, while challenging them to explain exactly how it's "grooming" for a fully clothed person to read that book to children.

I predict spluttering and bluster.

 

[bemused]

I think this is actually a fantastic idea. Show them a copy of the book being read to the kids, while challenging them to explain exactly how it's "grooming" for a fully clothed person to read that book to children.

I predict spluttering and bluster.

They aren't going to explain anything because they are hateful halfwits. Mocking them is the only sensible option.

 

[NoXion]

They aren't going to explain anything because they are hateful halfwits. Mocking them is the only sensible option.

The point of the challenge is precisely to demonstrate that this "grooming" nonsense is a bunch of incoherent and hateful wibble. They just yell "groomer!" because there's no possible way they can actually explain why without discrediting themselves.

 

[friendofdorothy]

This is the essence of it all now isn't it ? Logical, rational people, accustomed to logical, rational debate, haven't a hope in hell when it comes to random, scattergun, emotionally-driven nonsense. We need to create some emotionally-driven, spurious counter-arguments but it's beyond me.

These loony protestors obvisiously haven't heard of just writing to the chief librarian or local council if they don't an activity at the library. But then again I wonder if they have ever been in a library. Or read a book.

Think we need to of more creative ways to combat this right wing nonsense. But best not to argue or fight in front of children though, that is no way for grown ups to conduct themselves.

Maybe having 'please be quiet to respect other library users' signs for banners and hold a silent vigil, just miming sshhh! occasionally? Or staging a full on panto outside with 'its behind you' and 'to the woods' signs chanting things like 'oh no he isn't!' 'oh yes he is!' and throwing sweets at them?

 

[friendofdorothy]

The point of the challenge is precisely to demonstrate that this "grooming" nonsense is a bunch of incoherent and hateful wibble. They just yell "groomer!" because there's no possible way they can actually explain why without discrediting themselves.

Good idea. Most grooming is by hetro men within the family (NAM provisos apply)