Drag Queen Story Times picketed by protestors who claim that it grooms children and promotes paedophilia

[8ball]

I'm sure it's been done but at the end of the day, some, (not all) people who object to this are just going to believe what they believe.

Yeah, always true.

Do you have a solution to that?

 

[frogwoman]

Yeah, always true.

Do you have a solution to that?

Not really! I don't think bending over backwards to reassure them it's not a paedophile plot etc is gonna work tho, it might just make it worse.

 

[Orang Utan]

Yeah, always true.

Do you have a solution to that?

DQSTs everywhere

 

[cesare]

I thought that DGSH had been around for quite a while, not that new.

 

[Orang Utan]

I thought that DGSH had been around for quite a while, not that new.

A few years over here but much longer in the US.

 

[platinumsage]

The dinosaur thing has been around for a while. DQSH is new and a bit strange-looking so very easily misrepresented.

Covering what actually happens at story time wouldn’t be too much to expect from a half decent journalist imo.

I don't think many objectors are objecting because they mistakenly think it's a sex show, and would quickly switch to support when told it isn't. They object to the concept of drag queens, LGBTQ people or whatever, and use the involvement of kids as a justification for voicing their objections publicly.

 

[8ball]

Not really! I don't think bending over backwards to reassure them it's not a paedophile plot etc is gonna work tho, it might just make it worse.

I don't mean that, I just mean keeping things clear for people without an agenda who could be swayed by what the far-right is saying.
I saw one report that was like "side A claims the drag queens are sexualising children; the other side claims the children enjoy it and no one is harmed".

Something a bit more responsible would be good. I'm not claiming it will have any impact on the real nutjobs, just like explaining about the vaccines didn't.

 

[8ball]

A few years over here but much longer in the US.

Started 2015 in the US and someone here found one performance reported in the UK in 2017 earlier in the thread, but generally very little until 2020.

 

[frogwoman]

Expecting a bit much from the UK media there. I agree though

 

[Orang Utan]

Lol yes drag has never tried to push the boundaries of what can be feminine. Nor has it ever shown us that what is considered feminine isn't essentially tied to a female body. Reinforcing gender norms indeed.

Quite

 

[8ball]

I don't think many objectors are objecting because they mistakenly think it's a sex show, and would quickly switch to support when told it isn't. They object to the concept of drag queens, LGBTQ people or whatever, and use the involvement of kids as a justification for voicing their objections publicly.

I think there are those too.

I don't know what the relative proportions are, but I think the fact that they continually squeal about "paedophiles", "sexualising kids" and "grooming" makes it clear that they want to persuade a mass of people that something very grim is happening.

 

[Cid]

I don't mean that, I just mean keeping things clear for people without an agenda who could be swayed by what the far-right is saying.
I saw one report that was like "side A claims the drag queens are sexualising children; the other side claims the children enjoy it and no one is harmed".

Something a bit more responsible would be good. I'm not claiming it will have any impact on the real nutjobs, just like explaining about the vaccines didn't.

Yes, well addressing false equivalence in the media would be lovely, but er... has been an uphill battle for a while now.

 

[8ball]

Yes, well addressing false equivalence in the media would be lovely, but er... has been an uphill battle for a while now.

I did start this whole tack with "it would be nice if..." tbf.

 

[platinumsage]

I think there are those too.

I don't know what the relative proportions are, but I think the fact that they continually squeal about "paedophiles", "sexualising kids" and "grooming" makes it clear that they want to persuade a mass of people that something very grim is happening.

Yes they're not squealing that because they mistakenly think a grim sex show is happening, rather this is the new assault on LGBT people from the US - simply flying a rainbow flag is grooming for child abuse these days.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

rather this is the new assault on LGBT people from the US - simply flying a rainbow flag is grooming for child abuse these days.

and it's worth bearing in mind that - even if they are not exactly the same individuals in each case, the protestors here are branches of the same tree as covid denial, anti-vax, racism, anti-semitism, anti-abortion and so on.

might be worth people thinking about this when it comes to picking a side...

 

[8ball]

Yes they're not squealing that because they mistakenly think a grim sex show is happening...

Yeah, I meant they're trying to give the impression to passive idiots that this is what's happening.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

Yeah, I meant they're trying to give the impression to passive idiots that this is what's happening.

Which 'passive idiots' do you mean?

 

[frogwoman]

A lot of the same people who think weather reports are 'scaremongering'. 'IT'S JUST SUMMER!' etc

 

[frogwoman]

In that case no amount of 'patient explanation' is gonna be enough

 

[Sue]

and it's worth bearing in mind that - even if they are not exactly the same individuals in each case, the protestors here are branches of the same tree as covid denial, anti-vax, racism, anti-semitism, anti-abortion and so on.

might be worth people thinking about this when it comes to picking a side...

I don't think anyone here has said 'terrible, corrupting our children' or whatever so not sure 'picking a side' is relevant really.

The debate seems to have moved on to drag in general, how people perceive it and whether or not it reinforces/challenges gender stereotypes.

Maybe not what this thread was intended for -- maybe we need a new thread? -- but I at least am finding the discussion very interesting.

 

[Athos]

I don't think anyone here has said 'terrible, corrupting our children' or whatever so not sure 'picking a side' is relevant really.

The debate seems to have moved on to drag in general, how people perceive it and whether or not it reinforces/challenges gender stereotypes.

Maybe not what this thread was intended for -- maybe we need a new thread? -- but I at least am finding the discussion very interesting.

But that discussion (as interesting as it is), in and of itself is a political act. Whether intentionally or otherwise, to focus on the nuances of sexism in drag - something I don't dismiss at all btw - in the face of organised far right attacks on these events, which are based on other objections e.g. sexualisation and grooming, seems to play into the hands of fascists. A thread like this would seem to be more of a place for a united front. Perhaps this thread would be a better place for the wider discussing?

 

[strung out]

Thread on it here from 12 years ago when Julie Burchill wrote about Drag Queens being like Black and White Minstrels: https://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/drag-queens-are-like-the-black-and-white-minstrels.262938/

I agree with Edie's comment from that thread:

God she's just like that Richard Littlejohn twat, say anything for attention.

 

[Sue]

But that discussion (as interesting as it is), in and of itself is a political act. Whether intentionally or otherwise, to focus on the nuances of sexism in drag - something I don't dismiss at all btw - in the face of organised far right attacks on these events, which are based on other objections e.g. sexualisation and grooming, seems to play into the hands of fascists. A thread like this would seem to be more of a place for a united front. Perhaps this thread would be a better place for the wider discussing?

Sure but rightly or wrongly, threads going off track is pretty normal round these parts.

 

[Orang Utan]

But that discussion (as interesting as it is), in and of itself is a political act. Whether intentionally or otherwise, to focus on the nuances of sexism in drag - something I don't dismiss at all btw - in the face of organised far right attacks on these events, which are based on other objections e.g. sexualisation and grooming, seems to play into the hands of fascists. A thread like this would seem to be more of a place for a united front. Perhaps this thread would be a better place for the wider discussing?

I don’t mind it staying on here.

 

[NoXion]

The idea that drag is a "parody" of women or femininity is just such a bunch of pernicious nonsense. I can easily see the more clued-up queerphobes stealing such specious arguments for their own purposes.

 

[8ball]

I don’t mind it staying on here.

It might help the discussion to be open about people's initial reactions when discussing the subject.

 

[Athos]

Sure but rightly or wrongly, threads going off track is pretty normal round these parts.

Fair enough. And, since the OP, Orang Utan is happy with it, maybe I'm being over-cautious.

 

[8ball]

The idea that drag is a "parody" of women or femininity is just such a bunch of pernicious nonsense. I can easily see the more clued-up queerphobes stealing such specious arguments for their own purposes.

It can be a parody of gender.

Which is a little different, obv and clearly understandable from a group of people who have been castigated for not conforming to gender expectations for, like, pretty much forever.

 

[Funky_monks]

But that discussion (as interesting as it is), in and of itself is a political act. Whether intentionally or otherwise, to focus on the nuances of sexism in drag - something I don't dismiss at all btw - in the face of organised far right attacks on these events, which are based on other objections e.g. sexualisation and grooming, seems to play into the hands of fascists. A thread like this would seem to be more of a place for a united front. Perhaps this thread would be a better place for the wider discussing?

I would agree with that if discussions on here had any impact on the wider world, rather than on the radar of a handful of people on the Internet.

 

[8ball]

I would agree with that if discussions on here had any impact on the wider world, rather than on the radar of a handful of people on the Internet.

Yeah, we seem to often labour under the delusion that if someone says something we don't approve of it will have some terrible effect on the outside world by social osmosis, whereas we can call for each other's grisly death based on jacket potato toppings, or fantasise about how to execute fairly moderate political opponents and this magical effect will know that doing our bidding would be inappropriate in these cases.