Drag Queen Story Times picketed by protestors who claim that it grooms children and promotes paedophilia

[8ball]

No, in fact I'd say no drag I've ever seen was a send up of women, drag is almost always a send up of men. The drag costume, as much as anything, is a shield against reprisals.

That’s not a take I’ve seen before.

<ponders…>

 

[8ball]

Er, OK.

Made perfect sense to me.

 

[Raheem]

Made perfect sense to me.

Sure, drag is way too gender conforming. Stands to reason. Can't be any faulty reasoning underlying that.

 

[8ball]

Drag is a stage act whereby a cis man dresses up as a caricature of a woman and performs an (often "comedic") routine.

I once saw a drag queen act where it was cis women, though this is unusual tbf.

It was billed as “burlesque” because burlesque was a bit trendy at the time and a word people understood, but it was definitely drag.

 

[8ball]

Sure, drag is way too gender conforming. Stands to reason. Can't be any faulty reasoning underlying that.

I think you just haven’t understood frogwoman’s point properly.

 

[platinumsage]

Was this pointless and would these kids have been better off meeting a cartoon figure instead? Are they too young to think about this sort of thing?

 

[cesare]

I think you just haven’t understood frogwoman’s point properly.

I think it may have been Thora 's point

 

[8ball]

I think it may have been Thora 's point

D’oh! Apols to Thora - must read more carefully.

 

[cesare]

D’oh! Soz, must read more carefully.

I'm not sure that deliberately performing as a different gender is gender conformist though.

 

[frogwoman]

Drag queens are probably going to have children in their lives tbh. I don't know whether the story time drag queen has kids of their own but they're going to have family members with kids, friends, neighbours etc. As they've (unsure of pronouns sorry) written children's stories etc and iirc worked in a charity that organises events for autistic children it's obviously something that's gone down well with the kids they know.

 

[8ball]

I'm not sure that deliberately performing as a different gender is gender conformist though.

Well, if you were totally unaware of commonly understood gendered behaviour, I think you’d just be taken as “a bloke in a dress”.

There would be nothing to “perform” that anyone could latch onto.

Because everyone “performs” gender in a sense. You need to conform to a pattern to be understood as performing it adequately.

 

[platinumsage]

Anyway isn't this like a thread about fascists beating up brown people being diverted into a discussion about whether some of the brown people might not be sufficently working class?

 

[8ball]

Drag queens are probably going to have children in their lives tbh. I don't know whether the story time drag queen has kids of their own but they're going to have family members with kids, friends, neighbours etc. As they've (unsure of pronouns sorry) written children's stories etc and iirc worked in a charity that organises events for autistic children it's obviously something that's gone down well with the kids they know.

I think for a very long time, most kids who have a drag queen in the family will have known them as something like Uncle Dave, and the drag thing is something that happens down at the gay club.

Which I think is part of what is causing the discomfort.

 

[cesare]

Well, if you were totally unaware of commonly understood gendered behaviour, I think you’d just be taken as “a bloke in a dress”.

There would be nothing to “perform” that anyone could latch onto.

Because everyone “performs” gender in a sense. You need to conform to a pattern to be understood as performing it adequately.

As gender is performative, not conforming to those gender roles for the purpose of performance, doesn't strike me as being conforming at all.

I'll give it more thought though.

 

[8ball]

As gender is performative, not conforming to those gender roles for the purpose of performance, doesn't strike me as being conforming at all.

I'll give it more thought though.

I mean that the performer is conforming to the role of the other gender, and they tend to be exaggerated and stereotypical because exaggeration is a big part of drag.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Anyway isn't this like a thread about fascists beating up brown people being diverted into a discussion about whether some of the brown people might not be sufficently working class?

I'm not sure this comparison is likely to be helpful.

I am disappointed, but not remotely suprised, that some posters have managed to bend this all round to being an, 'I'm not saying I agree with the fascists per se, but I am going to make a lot of the same points that they do' type thread. See also the 'massive rise in hate crimes against trans folk' thread.

 

[8ball]

Oops - dp.

.

 

[8ball]

I'm not sure this comparison is likely to be helpful.

I am disappointed, but not remotely suprised, that some posters have managed to bend this all round to being an, 'I'm not saying I agree with the fascists per se, but I am going to make a lot of the same points that they do' type thread. See also the 'massive rise in hate crimes against trans folk' thread.

The fascists are claiming this is being done by paedophiles in an under the radar attempt to sexualise and groom young children.

Who here has said this?

 

[frogwoman]

there's posters arguing that it's akin to blackface and is automatically misogynistic etc.

 

[SpookyFrank]

The fascists are claiming this is being done by paedophiles in an under the radar attempt to sexualise and groom young children.

Who here has said this?

Nobody. There have however been plenty of implications that the DQSH performers are bringing a sexualised adult drag show straight from Canal Street to a bunch of five year olds in a suburban library.

 

[8ball]

there's posters arguing that it's akin to blackface and is automatically misogynistic etc.

I don’t agree with that, but I didn’t see anyone on that video saying either of those things.

I’d expect some of the right to play this card to get what they want, but those aren’t genuine points in that case.

 

[8ball]

Nobody. There have however been plenty of implications that the DQSH performers are bringing a sexualised adult drag show straight from Canal Street to a bunch of five year olds in a suburban library.

And I take it you agree that this shouldn’t happen in front of children in a library.

In which case the solution is to make it very clear what is happening so it can’t be easily misrepresented in this way.

I don’t know which posts you are referring to, so hard to tell whether it is misapprehension or accusation.

 

[frogwoman]

And I take it you agree that this shouldn’t happen in front of children in a library.

In which case the solution is to make it very clear what is happening so it can’t be easily misrepresented in this way.

It is clear what's happening if you read their website though?

 

[SpookyFrank]

And I take it you agree that this shouldn’t happen in front of children in a library.

 

[smmudge]

Sure, drag is way too gender conforming. Stands to reason. Can't be any faulty reasoning underlying that.

Lol yes drag has never tried to push the boundaries of what can be feminine. Nor has it ever shown us that what is considered feminine isn't essentially tied to a female body. Reinforcing gender norms indeed.

 

[8ball]

It is clear what's happening if you read their website though?

Yeah, but as we were talking about, a lot of people will make judgments based on social or other media.

Would be nice if the more mainstream media made a decent effort to counter the misrepresentation.

 

[8ball]

Lol yes drag has never tried to push the boundaries of what can be feminine. Nor has it ever shown us that what is considered feminine isn't essentially tied to a female body.

And they do this without displaying any performative feminine behaviours at all.

Amazing.

 

[frogwoman]

Yeah, but as we were talking about, a lot of people will make judgments based on social or other media.

Sure, but there's a limit to what the presenters of this show can do. To an extent, sorry, but that's their problem. There are people who think dinosaur fossils are a fake and designed to be a test of people's faith, that doesn't mean everyone involved in science should put all their efforts into addressing this view and bend over backwards to reassure people that its not.

 

[8ball]

Sure, but there's a limit to what the presenters of this show can do. To an extent, sorry, but that's their problem. There are people who think dinosaur fossils are a fake and designed to be a test of people's faith, that doesn't mean everyone involved in science should put all their efforts into addressing this view and bend over backwards to reassure people that its not.

The dinosaur thing has been around for a while. DQSH is new and a bit strange-looking so very easily misrepresented.

Covering what actually happens at story time wouldn’t be too much to expect from a half decent journalist imo.

 

[frogwoman]

The dinosaur thing has been around for a while. DQSH is new and a bit strange-looking so very easily misrepresented.

Covering what actually happens at story time wouldn’t be too much to expect from a half decent journalist imo.

I'm sure it's been done but at the end of the day, some, (not all) people who object to this are just going to believe what they believe.