Drag Queen Story Times picketed by protestors who claim that it grooms children and promotes paedophilia

[platinumsage]

Why drag and not a children's entertainer though, all popular kid characters and colourful and fun.

it's not about just being colourful and fun, I quoted their reason for doing it above.

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

I'd have loved some good LGBT role models when I was a kid ffs

My daughter befriended some drag artists on Instagram and interviewed them for a school newspaper article. On her own initiative. Her and her friends decided to do something about pride. It was not a task they were given but something they were aware of and wanted to hear about.

I’m proud.

 

[bemused]

I think there's a quoting error, there!

Well spoteed Batman!

 

[Thora]

Children's entertainers not being free, probably.

Somehow I don't think costs have any relevance at all.

 

[Funky_monks]

No I do not, and I do not think drag is like the black and white minstrel show ffs

This is like trying to argue that theatre can be culturally enriching, to someone who has only seen one school play.

Explain why cis men parodying women by dressing up as a highly exaggerated caricature of one and then performing an act that plays heavily on exaggerated female stereotypes is dissimilar?

Drag is not the same as being trans.

 

[platinumsage]

Maybe it was just my kids at the age they were reading the Gruffalo I don't think gender, sexuality etc crossed their minds.

You really think that? Kids just like animal cartoons until they're teenagers?

 

[bemused]

You really think that? Kids just like animal cartoons until they're teenagers?

No, your right I know nothing about my own children .... what was I thinking!

 

[Rob Ray]

Somehow I don't think costs have any relevance at all.

Libraries are  very underfunded, so getting stuff for free is usually pretty relevant. If you're looking for ideological librarians I expect you could find some lefties around of course, but that's in the realm of speculation.

 

[platinumsage]

No, your right I know nothing about my own children .... what was I thinking!

You think they had no concept of gender norms?

 

[rubbershoes]

I have a question about language. The drag queens I knew twenty five years ago didn't perform on stage. They called themselves drag queens and dressed as women all the time, not just to put on shows . Contrast that with Lily Savage who also presents lovely TV shows about dogs as Paul O'Grady.

Is "drag queen" now restricted to the stage personas?

 

[bemused]

You think they had no concept of gender norms?

I think they didn't care about it when they were six, when they got older they went through the same period of self-doubt and working themselves out we all did.

 

[Rob Ray]

You think they had no concept of gender norms?

You reckon small kids are looking at Tinkie Winkie and solemnly pondering "why does this purple tv-chested alien have a purse, are they a woman" do you?

 

[platinumsage]

You reckon small kids are looking at Tinkie Winkie and solemnly pondering "why does this purple tv-chested alien have a purse, are they a woman" do you?

I reckon kids have well-formed ideas from a very young age of what girls/women and boys/men are supposed to dress and behave like. The notion that these ideas shouldn't be addressed by getting a gender-non-confirming person to read them story, but we should just plonk them in front of Frozen instead is a bit weird tbh.

 

[bemused]

I reckon kids have well-formed ideas from a very young age of what girls/women and boys/men are supposed to dress and behave like. The notion that these ideas shouldn't be addressed by getting a gender-non-confirming person to read them story, but we should just plonk them in front of Frozen instead is a bit weird tbh.

How often have you discussed gender norms with a sex-year-old?

If parents want to take their kids to these events good luck to them, they seem pretty harmless fun and if the kids and parents enjoy it that's great. I think the idea that four to seven years olds are going to walk away from them questioning the nature of social norms is somewhat far-fetched IMHO.

 

[platinumsage]

How often have you discussed gender norms with a sex-year-old?

If parents want to take their kids to these events good luck to them, they seem pretty harmless fun and if the kids and parents enjoy it that's great. I think the idea that four to seven years olds are going to walk away from them questioning the nature of social norms is somewhat far-fetched IMHO.

DQST isn't about "discussing" gender norms though is it?

No one is forcing parents to send their kids to these events.

 

[bemused]

DQST isn't about "discussing" gender norms though is it?

No one is forcing parents to send their kids to these events.

Where have a said anyone is forced to attend?

 

[Rob Ray]

Kids often express strong opinions, including sometimes on gender, but I don't think these necessarily come from well-formed ideas. Being kids and all they don't have depth of knowledge, but they do reflect what they see around them, mapped as best it can be against their internal world. With a bit of luck that becomes a well-formed idea over time. But when little they can simultaneously be pretty hot on boys not wearing pink, and fine with the concept of a Tinky Winky.

Though that all said, I think we're rapidly moving into realms which are very hard to really understand even by experts, let alone opinionated gits on Urban. Kids' psychology and learning processes is a hell of a topic.

 

[Orang Utan]

Children's entertainers not being free, probably.

I don’t think the drag queens are free either - they need to get paid too!

 

[Thora]

Are drag queens gender non-conforming? I thought it was more about presenting a very exaggerated female gender performance?

Dave, the builder and single dad who loves pink handbags and glitter might be gender non-conforming, but not sure Trixie or Bianca with a tight dress, big boobs and loads of make up is.

 

[platinumsage]

Where have a said anyone is forced to attend?

So what's your criticism of DQST exactly?

 

[bemused]

So what's your criticism of DQST exactly?

I don't have any criticism, I've simply said that my kids at six-year-olds won't be thinking about gender norms when being read a child's book. You've gone off on your own tangent.

I even called it harmless fun which seems to upset you.

 

[platinumsage]

I don't have any criticism, I've simply said that my kids at six-year-olds won't be thinking about gender norms when being read a child's book. You've gone off on your own tangent.

I even called it harmless fun which seems to upset you.

I posted the DQST rationale, you responded by implying it wasn't relevant to your children, and by implication, other children. Presumably you think it won't achieve its stated aims. That sounds like a criticism of it to me

"The aim of DQST is to capture the imagination and fun of the gender fluidity of childhood, while giving children a glamorous, positive, and unabashedly queer role model. DQST provides spaces in which kids are able to see people who defy rigid gender restrictions and allow them to imagine a world in which people can present as they wish."

 

[bemused]

I posted the DQST rationale, you responded by implying it wasn't relevant to your children, and by implication, other children. Presumably you think it won't achieve its stated aims. That sounds like a criticism of it to me

"The aim of DQST is to capture the imagination and fun of the gender fluidity of childhood, while giving children a glamorous, positive, and unabashedly queer role model. DQST provides spaces in which kids are able to see people who defy rigid gender restrictions and allow them to imagine a world in which people can present as they wish."

I said my kids, I don't speak for other people's kids.

Keep trying I'm sure you'll turn it into an argument at some point, even though I've said they are harmless fun, people protesting them are weirdos & if kids and parents enjoy it that's great.

 

[8ball]

Actually, women can object to it regardless that they are always at the bottom of the identity politics hierarchy…

Second from bottom, thanks very much. Straight cis white women, anyway.

 

[belboid]

The idea that six year olds have no concept of gender norms is fucking hilarious.

 

[killer b]

I've simply said that my kids at six-year-olds won't be thinking about gender norms

No-one's kids think very deeply about gender norms: but they're bombarded every day with information about what a girl or a boy is, and how a girl or a boy should act or dress or behave, and gender norms - without any conscious thinking about the topic necessary - are formed in their little heads. The explicit purpose of this event is to challenge this bombardment of information - whether it does this or not is clearly debatable, but what isn't really debatable is that people form ideas about gender very early in their lives. If you want to challenge those ideas, then getting to them young is probably a good idea. That's why the fascists don't like it.

 

[Funky_monks]

No-one's kids think very deeply about gender norms: but they're bombarded every day with information about what a girl or a boy is, and how a girl or a boy should act or dress or behave, and gender norms - without any conscious thinking about the topic necessary - are formed in their little heads. The explicit purpose of this event is to challenge this bombardment of information - whether it does this or not is clearly debatable, but what isn't really debatable is that people form ideas about gender very early in their lives. If you want to challenge those ideas, then getting to them young is probably a good idea. That's why the fascists don't like it.

Absolutely, and I think that gender norms should be challenged.

However, as said, drag is a parody of women.

Challenging gender norms might be having stories read by trans people, not cis men.

 

[frogwoman]

Are drag queens gender non-conforming? I thought it was more about presenting a very exaggerated female gender performance?

Dave, the builder and single dad who loves pink handbags and glitter might be gender non-conforming, but not sure Trixie or Bianca with a tight dress, big boobs and loads of make up is.

Used to be mates with one of the reddest of red blooded straight men who would put on a skirt every time he'd had a few drinks. There's nothing wrong with it.

 

[8ball]

Tbh I agree I don't usually like drag because I find people talking in exaggerated high pitched voices for comedy effect annoying

Me too. This is why I liked Lily Savage.

 

[frogwoman]

I don't think it's intended as a 'parody of women' at all tho.