Tell that to my kids. Or have I imagined them?
Does the left understand the working class and how would they answer their concerns?
- Thread starter CyberRose
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Tell that to my kids. Or have I imagined them?
revol68
what, fucking what?
cos it doesn't exist anymore or I most likely would as it was usually good craic.
the point of course still stands that I don't have to justify myself to some civil servant on the internet, I have to do enough of that every two weeks for the princely sum of £55 quid a week.
As for public toliets, we can have them self cleaning mofo's. Honestly if the one thing holding back the abolishment of wage labour was the issue of cleaning public toliets I'd be much more optimistic about our collective future.
Ahhh....so that's your excuse?
CyberRose
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I think you're intelligent enough to know that the toilet work is just an example of unsavoury work that people would not want to do and refuse. As it's also an important job that needs doing, you have to tell us how you would solve that particular problem...
(The obvious answer is you have to coerce people, and from there it escalates into dictatorship like every communist state throughout history turned into)
cos it doesn't exist anymore or I most likely would as it was usually good craic.
the point of course still stands that I don't have to justify myself to some civil servant on the internet, I have to do enough of that every two weeks for the princely sum of £55 quid a week.
No you don't have to justify yourself to me, I was just intrigued that the only 2 options you could come up with were a) paid job or b) sit on your arse all summer. There is of course another option: get off your arse, get your head out of the books and go and do something of real benefit, like volunteering in a youth centre. In fact if it's not there any more, why not start another one?
Is it because that would be bourgeois liberal do-gooding or something?
revol68
what, fucking what?
I'd shoot them but thankfully such matters don't rest on me as some sort of philosopher king but are problems for the future and those that will encounter them.
I guess we'll have to scrap the whole notion of communism because of the toliet cleaning problem, we'll just have to settle for capitalism and it's much easier to solve problems like ecological disaster.
Not in my book sunshine.
I'd shoot them but thankfully such matters don't rest on me as some sort of philosopher king but are problems for the future and those that will encounter them.
I guess we'll have to scrap the whole notion of communism because of the toliet cleaning problem, we'll just have to settle for capitalism and it's much easier to solve problems like ecological disaster.
Wow. I'm so looking forward to your utopia revol.
But the fact remains that regardless of which type of society you live in, there are tasks to be done which are menial, dirty and unpleasant.
So what DID happen to the Spanish Anarchists, did they all die of dysentry cos no-one cleaned the bogs?
CyberRose
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At least under this system people choose to do a particular job, they aren't forced to (even if it's through lack of choice or alternatives, the point still stands as you yourself are a perfect example - they don't have to)I guess we'll have to scrap the whole notion of communism because of the toliet cleaning problem, we'll just have to settle for capitalism and it's much easier to solve problems like ecological disaster.
Under your system there is no way to get unsavoury but necessary jobs done without coercion...
So after all that highfalutin principled talk of not giving one inch to the man, you're willing to sell your body to a company like, say, Covance?
Quite. It is impossible to not be a hypocrite to some degree. There's exploitation built in of some sort almost everywhere. Given that you recognise that though, why not take one of the least worst options, like working part time for an ethically focused business, charity, organisation etc, or even just working at your locally owned greengrocer.
You've exhibited what seems like a completely irrational fear of going self-employed so that option's closed to you. Shame as its the most likely route to some kind of fulfillment at work if you do something you care about.
Sitting on the dole, when you're able bodied and skilled enough to work, while bleating and preaching on an internet forum about what everyone else should be doing (particular wrt to people who are actually working themselves), isn't one of those 'least worst' options and is actually approaching "greatest douche in the universe" levels of hypocrisy. In some ways it wouldn't seem so bad if you were just a simple hedonist but you're not - you consider yourself one of the Righteous.
revol68
what, fucking what?
Well yes.
There is of course the fact I am happy enough doing what I'm doing at the moment. I mean I could just as equally start patronising you about wasting your life working for a state that is part of the problem, no? I could ask you why you spend 3 quid on a pint instead of donating it to starving children, I could ask why you buy your children toys whilst other kids have no running water?
Except I wouldn't because I'm not a pious arsehole who reduces politics to pathetic lifestylism.
Well there's the selfishness then: you're quite happy with what you're doing, so everyone else? Fuck em. Kids from poor families who could with some focus in their lives? Fuck em.
I agree, to a certain extent I am wasting my life working for a state that is part of the problem. But then I live in the real world. So why do you spend £3 on a pint rather than donating it to starving children? After all, that's what you said your summer is likely to consist of at least in part.
And another -ism and more insults. Are you actually a real person or a bot that is programmed to post this stuff?
revol68
what, fucking what?
really, no shit?
eh what is your point beyond the obvious?
does the fact that there will still be dull shit to do mean that the complete domination of menial shit forced upon us by capitalism with no other end than the pursuit of profit is fine?
the fact that some people will die of cancer naturally make it fine to create a cancerous environment?
Hang on, do you really think that because I realise there are menial jobs, I'm quite happy with capitalism? That's priceless.
As I said, in whatever society we create, there will always be menial and dirty work - someone will have to do it. You were asked how this could be resolved, and you said you'd shoot anyone who wouldn't comply and that this is a problem for future generations to solve? Do you seriously not think these issues need considering as part of a master plan for your utopia? Such tasks actually have fuck all to do with the pursuit of profit, they're essential for a healthy society.
CyberRose
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I think the most selfish thing about him is that he can't even say thank you to me or you cos we're the idiots paying his dole money to him so he can sit about lazing his days away while we're out there working! There'll be countless threads, no doubt participated in by revol68, when the government wants to cut jobseekers' allowance or put tougher conditions on them, but why the hell should we be paying for revol's lifestyle? I feel sorry for people who are looking for work but can't find any, or people physically unable to work, but if someone chooses not to work then they should not receive a penny...then we'll see how quickly they get off their arse and do something
Revol, you can't hide your laziness behind an ideology all your life...
Sooner of later we all need money, whether it's to start a family or take a girl out (unless of course you're Shannon Matthew's mum, but she's another one who should be cut off)
Revol, you can't hide your laziness behind an ideology all your life...
Sooner of later we all need money, whether it's to start a family or take a girl out (unless of course you're Shannon Matthew's mum, but she's another one who should be cut off)
Yes, very good. Btw, revol's the one who worked voluntarily in a youth centre (and I srsly respect him for that), does that make him the Bishop of Bath and Wells? I'm sure he'd look awesome in a mitre.
revol68
what, fucking what?
You miss the point you muppet, my point was that if you wish to get into a pishing contest about individual morality and how unselfish each of us is or isn't you'll ned up in the futile position of been overwhelmed by guilt everytime you go for a pint.
Don't you get it, my politics aren't based on charity or some notion of sainthood, I don't think I'm any better than you cause you work for the civil service, nor did I felt guilty working as a software tester for an IT company, I felt personally depressed by it.
The whole politics of guilt is one of capitalism finest ideological tools, look as it makes us ashamed to see workers in appalling conditions catch our tuna and make our clothes, or tells us how lucky we are to have a mobile phone cos some kids in Africa only get an AK47 to play with on their 9th birthday. Oh how spoilt we are, how grateful we should be to have an office job and a mortgage, look at those greedy tube workers they are disgusting selfish bastards.
Of course the reason why we have to do shit jobs we hate for £7 an hour in order to keep a roof over our heads is the same reason why some poor fuck is getting $2 a day to skin our tuna, it's all part of global capitalism.
CyberRose
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The point is, how on Earth do you deal with people like yourself who refuse to do work? What makes you think that lazy people like yourself won't continue being lazy in your ideal society?
revol68
what, fucking what?
I should say thank you to you?
Oh wise up, what a nob you are.
when I was working I had loads of mates on the dole and I'd hope they'd have kicked the shit out of me if I had ever said something so retarded and up my own arse, as if I was such a trooper working to keep them in their cider and spliff.
As it is there is fuck all work out there and since it's the summer it's not bothering me so much. Maybe I should bow down and grovel and prove myself to be of the deserving poor, maybe if I said it was really soul destroying being able to sit out in the sun and read a book and all I really wanted was a chance to be a useful and functioning member of society, digging up holes for the sake of holes or calling people up to pimp credit cards, just maybe then I would be deserving of your so kind charity.
Catch a fucking grip you utter muppet.
I agree with your last paragraph, but the first? Guilt stems from capitalism? Not from any sense of compassion? Or have I misread that?
oh, and why do you have to resort to insults again?
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