Do angry vegans turn you against going vegan?
- Thread starter Watermelon Man
- Start date
PaoloSanchez
Well-Known Member
Proper or improper supermarkets, same thing applies. If you are buying from Aldi/Lidl (I presume those count as "proper" supermarkets) a vegan can feed themselves reasonably well for the same or less than a meat eater. If you only have a tiny Costcutter/Nisa/VG market then the food will be just as expensive for a meat eater and not necessarily any more expensive for a vegan. (although choice might be a bit limited)
AnnaKarpik
Queen of all she surveys
"Going vegan" and "adopting a vegan diet" - wasn't this discussed up-thread, don't vegans think generally that these are two different things? I guess here that you are referring to adopting a vegan diet as this has shown some benefits in some people with some illnesses.
What do you imagine is being demonstrated when an ill person becomes well again after a vegan diet? Logic suggests the following to me*
a) the ill person has a remitting disease
b) the person becomes well because of what they include in their diet (in increased quantity perhaps) rather than because of what they exclude
c) there is an as yet undiscovered correlation between a vegan diet and human health.
*I declare an interest; I did find my RA improved with a vegan diet but that is anecdote not evidence. RA is a remitting disease.
I know it is difficult to establish that a vegan diet has any particular health benefit because we're not allowed to experiment on people very rigourously and confounding factors easily lead to odd results. Who knows why Austrian vegetarians tend to visit the doctor and report more ill health than other Austrians, for example. It's only fair to note too, that lots of people report improvements in their health because they believe they are doing something that improves their health, regardless of whether that improvement can be detected objectively.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
Aside from a slight re-wording of the last point, these are exactly the reasons that plausibly explain some people I know feeling better after packing in veganism (or vegetarianism in a couple of cases).
UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
I guess if by feed your self then you mean eat enough kcals then of course you are right. As you say though, choice is a bit limited.
I do eat meat, but we're trying for various reasons to eat more meals without it. To get more intresting stuff like dried beans, lentils, tofu at sensible prices you do have to shop around more then for meat as I guess there is less interest in compition.
'Here's why we are going to win'...what? The Tosspot Award for Hectoring Gobshites?
It's all very...confrontational...and tbh, there would be far more noticeable global effect if everyone just made a small effort to consider the provenance of their food choices, making small incremental changes rather than wholesale adoption of a food cult which is largely untenable for the vast majority of the world population (that being the 99% of people who are not obsessing over their bio-dynamic wheatgrass smoothies). I see NOTHING particularly ethical about the importing of avocados, the careless consumption of out of season fruits and vegetables, grown under market imperatives, regardless of ecological utility, to infuse an entitled generation with righteousness, eating foods which are not, and never will be locally available without intensive agriculture and a global import business. But yep, carry on with your almond milk and rice consumption..because without a huge transport network, British vegans would be munching on stored carrots, wrinkly apples, salted beans and parsnips right now (in the 'hungry gap').
Bit of a rubbish statement though GG. Just exactly how much (edible) food have you managed to grow this year? (even allowing for the (ahem) watercress experiments)
. Even with a couple of allotments, I am not providing much more than a 3month seasonal glut and a whole lot of jam and ketchup. I only managed Xmas roasties by making an effort at rationing.Parsley and leeks - that's pretty much it at the moment...and of course, I am fortunate enough to actually have access to soil and space.
Have to applaud Bulldog tools though.
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UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
I guess we'd have to go back to eating lots of fermented foods.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
Beer counts, right?
Yep, definitely a lot of brining and pickling. Truth is, I don't really have a dog in this race and it doesn't even concern me overmuch, apart from a vague unease about restrictive rules impacting on grand-daughter. I am not oblivious to the politics of food but as always, the issues are complex and not helpfully addressed by the adoption of faddy, self-absorbed eating trends of a privileged minority.
Of course. Worried about sweetheart's perilously skinny frame, I laughingly suggested a beer diet...which he took to like the proverbial duck in water. Gained not a single ounce but I know for sure he sleeps well, owing to the somnolent effects of 2 nightly bottles of Broadside.
lazythursday
Averagely-Known Member
But food miles are a small proportion of overall carbon costs of food, and it is arguably much less environmentally damaging to eat imported vegetables / pulses than eat locally reared meat.
It isn't just food miles though is it? The global food market also presides over desperately poor use of water and topsoil as land which would have been used to grow indigenous crops or even for pastoral farming, is set aside to comply with a middle class demand for everyday salads, green beans and Christmas strawberries - not to mention the insane cutflower market.
PaoloSanchez
Well-Known Member
If you're on benefits and you live in the middle of nowhere outside the catchment area of a supermarket then your choice is likely to be more limited (and possibly more expensive) regardless of whether you are a vegan or not, same conditions apply. I'm not sure if there are such things as "food deserts" in the UK and I imagine that most people who are on low income or on benefits have access to supermarkets and can therefore get reasonably priced and reasonable quality food.
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I believe we've had this conversation already somewhere in this thread. If you want food for sensible prices, you'll have to shop around anyway, being a vegan doesn't change that. The thing that might make it a bit more of a challenge in the initial stages is more to do with unfamiliarity, especially if you've been used to shopping in a particular way. Folks that are genuinely interested will seek out the knowledge and explore their new food terrain, and on that journey might discover new tastes and flavours that they never knew existed. Others may prefer to stick to their familiar, comforting non threatening foods like chicken and chips errday. Whatever floats peoples boats I suppose.
gentlegreen
I hummus, therefore I am ...
I personally base my diet around broccoli and sprouts cooked from fresh, but I wonder how the nutrient profile would compare if someone was eating bargain bin turkey twizzlers versus cheap veggie stodge and few fresh greens.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
I tried black garlic at Christmas - amazing stuff (though expensive).
Gives some of the flavour balance of meat without being an "attempted meat replacement", which I always find disappointing.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
I believe a test of this (or something similar) was done in the Bible and the latter won out.
UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
I don't either, but I do find the greater conversation about food supplies interesting, partly as my other half is a small scale farmer as well as having a bit of an interest in lacto fermentation.
Not sure if you're intrested, but there is a company called Hodmedod that has started supplying UK grown pules & grains and won a food and farming award for it this year. I've got some of their blue split peas in the cupboard I keep meaning to experiment with.
About Hodmedod
8ball
Decolonise colons!
Presumably named after the founder was sat in the bath struggling to think of a name, and then farted?
beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
Why shouldnt people promote ideas that they believe in? I mean I don't want to see pictures of tortured animals, but it's not like anyone has taken away her choice.
I'm not doing it, but am making a big effort to eat a lot less meat this month. By doing this, rather then just one day a week, I've learnt some cool new things to cook. Most of us can knock up a few decent veggie dishes, doing it for longer makes you think a bit more.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
Why shouldn't people have a problem with how they promote them?
I don't either, but I do find the greater conversation about food supplies interesting, partly as my other half is a small scale farmer as well as having a bit of an interest in lacto fermentation.
Not sure if you're intrested, but there is a company called Hodmedod that has started supplying UK grown pules & grains and won a food and farming award for it this year. I've got some of their blue split peas in the cupboard I keep meaning to experiment with.
About Hodmedod
Yeah, I know them, through the small farming network. I did some work on growing beans for another friend out in Downham Market (which ended up in tins for Waitrose) and also have a friend using a small council farm as a market garden (although he does 'buy in' stuff at this time of year. What is the acreage farmed by your friend?
I don't grow as many veggies as I could (because flowers) but I have been a little irked by the huge Grow your Own craze...which is basically punting out dead easy plug plants of sweetcorn and such and urging folk to grow lettuce in a window box (better off with a few herbs but).
In fairness, I would as happily consume a food pill after 50 years of (resentful) family cooking. Left to my own devices, Toast would be my main food item.
Soz - no idea what happened to your quote.
purenarcotic
Conveniently Pocket Sized
The Three Estates in Kings Norton in Birmingham are not served by a single supermarket - it’s been a source of huge frustration for those living there and has caused problems for the kids and schools who know they have to promote healthy eating but feel its daft when for a lot of their kids it’s not doable for their families. I’m acutely aware that vegan or not, the choices are hard and limited, my issue with your post was that it read to me very condescending towards parents, as though they don’t care. Perhaps some don’t, a lot do though but structural difficulties make it hard. Shitting on people already struggling isn’t fair.
lazythursday
Averagely-Known Member
I love the Hodmedod pea flours which I've been using a lot recently. Nicer, but similar to gram/chickpea flour. About double the cost though...I don't either, but I do find the greater conversation about food supplies interesting, partly as my other half is a small scale farmer as well as having a bit of an interest in lacto fermentation.
Not sure if you're intrested, but there is a company called Hodmedod that has started supplying UK grown pules & grains and won a food and farming award for it this year. I've got some of their blue split peas in the cupboard I keep meaning to experiment with.
About Hodmedod
UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
It's the only time of year I'm allowed to buy what veg I want from the supermarket, so its a time of plenty for me.
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