Do angry vegans turn you against going vegan?

[purenarcotic]

Why has January been chosen as an ideal month to embrace a plant based lifestyle...when there is precious little available at this time of year? Logic fail.

It’s the new year thing innit - people give up fags, drink, gym membership sky rockets.... new year new me thing.

 

[PaoloSanchez]

Why shouldnt people promote ideas that they believe in? I mean I don't want to see pictures of tortured animals, but it's not like anyone has taken away her choice.

It would appear that even the sight of the word "vegan" is to some a kind of triggering word that creates a knee jerk reaction in some folk. I personally don't have a problem with people promoting whatever their interests are. If it's something that doesn't interest me then I will simply ignore it, so I can't understand why meat eaters get so het up and unnecessarily involved in vegan discussions that they could also easily ignore. What's that all about?

 

[ddraig]

Most non-vegans are apathetic because vegans don't have the power to get their wacky cult enacted into law.

not eating meat/attempting to eliminate cruelty is a wacky cult?

 

[ddraig]

from this

'Here's why we are going to win'...what? The Tosspot Award for Hectoring Gobshites?
It's all very...confrontational...and tbh, there would be far more noticeable global effect if everyone just made a small effort to consider the provenance of their food choices, making small incremental changes rather than wholesale adoption of a food cult which is largely untenable for the vast majority of the world population (that being the 99% of people who are not obsessing over their bio-dynamic wheatgrass smoothies). I see NOTHING particularly ethical about the importing of avocados, the careless consumption of out of season fruits and vegetables, grown under market imperatives, regardless of ecological utility, to infuse an entitled generation with righteousness, eating foods which are not, and never will be locally available without intensive agriculture and a global import business. But yep, carry on with your almond milk and rice consumption..because without a huge transport network, British vegans would be munching on stored carrots, wrinkly apples, salted beans and parsnips right now (in the 'hungry gap').

through this

Yep, definitely a lot of brining and pickling. Truth is, I don't really have a dog in this race and it doesn't even concern me overmuch, apart from a vague unease about restrictive rules impacting on grand-daughter. I am not oblivious to the politics of food but as always, the issues are complex and not helpfully addressed by the adoption of faddy, self-absorbed eating trends of a privileged minority.

and this

It isn't just food miles though is it? The global food market also presides over desperately poor use of water and topsoil as land which would have been used to grow indigenous crops or even for pastoral farming, is set aside to comply with a middle class demand for everyday salads, green beans and Christmas strawberries - not to mention the insane cutflower market.

to this!!

Yeah, I know them, through the small farming network. I did some work on growing beans for another friend out in Downham Market (which ended up in tins for Waitrose) and also have a friend using a small council farm as a market garden (although he does 'buy in' stuff at this time of year. What is the acreage farmed by your friend?
I don't grow as many veggies as I could (because flowers) but I have been a little irked by the huge Grow your Own craze...which is basically punting out dead easy plug plants of sweetcorn and such and urging folk to grow lettuce in a window box (better off with a few herbs but).
In fairness, I would as happily consume a food pill after 50 years of (resentful) family cooking. Left to my own devices, Toast would be my main food item.
Soz - no idea what happened to your quote.

so not just carrots and wrinkly parsnips then as you well know!

i'm not rich or privileged particularly, currently signing on with no work so please stop about rich/middles class/posh types and veganism, it's lazy and wrong

also for everyone, it's not a cult, Veganism has been around for decades and probably longer, it isn't going to go away and is getting broader accelerated support for ethical, humane, health and environmental reasons, these are facts
people have a go at vegans for absolutism and then have a go because they're not self sufficient expert farmers who have to buy imported foods, again damned either way

as always, thread appears to be going round and round a bit now
Vegan Sidekick is not hectoring, they point out the absurdity of the carnists, their attacks on vegans and the excuses people use for continued consumption of flesh
e2a - I presume they mean "winning the argument"as that what it clearly is, a constant argument as illustrated right here in almost a 100 pages

 

[ddraig]

Why I Have A Problem With Veganuary

woah!! lot's of fragility there! it's all about them isn't it and making them feel bad
and while they throw in a few caveats in about how they've "got no problem with vegans" and "can see the benefits" etc, they clearly have a MASSIVE problem with it
of course a marketing campaign is going to 'hard sell' the message, that's is fucking aim for fucks sake
no one is being forced to sign up, it's a fucking choice people make and if people feel guilty when they see the ads etc then that's their look out

 

[Spymaster]

... if people feel guilty when they see the ads etc then that's their look out

But they don't, that's the point. They just feel browbeaten and annoyed. You need to get off this thing about meat eaters feeling guilty. Very few actually do.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

But they don't, that's the point. They just feel browbeaten and annoyed. You need to get off this thing about meat eaters feeling guilty. Very few actually do.

She obviously had a touch of it.

 

[Spymaster]

She obviously had a touch of it.

I don't think so. She's just trying to be polite and putting the boot into her own case as a result.

 

[ddraig]

I don't think so. She's just trying to be polite and putting the boot into her own case as a result.

haha! nice one
poor her having to look at adverts in tube stations

 

[Jeff Robinson]

She obviously had a touch of it.

Countless animals being tortured and brutally killed to supply this woman and others like her with luxury food items they don't need and yet she's the victim because she has to see a vegan advert every now and then on the side of the bus (amongst the endless stream of adverts for meat and other animal products). The arrogance, self-entitlement and self-pity of such people is truly staggering.

 

[campanula]

[QUOTE="ddraig, post: 15383584, member: 1246"

so not just carrots and wrinkly parsnips then as you well know!

I do indeed know that there will be a choice of leeks and stored root vegetables...and not much else until March, when we can add broccoli to the list...if we are referring to locally grown food as opposed to a globally sourced market.

'i'm not rich or privileged particularly, currently signing on with no work so please stop about rich/middles class/posh types and veganism, it's lazy and wrong'

No, it is not. Are you raising a growing family...or feeding just yourself...because the differences between my self-imposed austerity diet and the nutritional needs for a family (especially with various allergies and other pressures) are too wide apart to usefully compare.

Still, might go and carve a last slice of the Xmas ham since it is fair to say that I have not been persuaded, converted or guilted by the foaming hyperbole of vegans...do carry on with your self-referential convo though.

 

[Spymaster]

haha! nice one
poor her having to look at adverts in tube stations

Again you miss the point spectacularly.

Why do you feel it necessary to insist on this guilt that meat eaters are all apparently feeling? You do it a lot and it's absolute nonsense. It clearly illustrates the fragility of your own position that you need to make up things that are blatantly false.

 

[NoXion]

not eating meat/attempting to eliminate cruelty is a wacky cult?

Veganism is about more than "not eating meat/attempting to eliminate cruelty".

 

[8ball]

But they don't, that's the point. They just feel browbeaten and annoyed. You need to get off this thing about meat eaters feeling guilty. Very few actually do.

I think that's the thing, that article was pretty supportive of people not eating meat and gave references to why cutting down or cutting out meat could be a good thing, but... but well it's all group dynamics stuff, I can't much be arsed with picking it apart.

In vegans' defense, there are worse things to be than a bit annoying.

 

[ddraig]

[QUOTE="ddraig, post: 15383584, member: 1246"

so not just carrots and wrinkly parsnips then as you well know!

I do indeed know that there will be a choice of leeks and stored root vegetables...and not much else until March, when we can add broccoli to the list...if we are referring to locally grown food as opposed to a gloabally sourced market.

'i'm not rich or privileged particularly, currently signing on with no work so please stop about rich/middles class/posh types and veganism, it's lazy and wrong'

No, it is not. Are you raising a growing family...or feeding just yourself...because the differences between my self-imposed austerity diet and the nutritional needs for a family (especially with various allergies and other pressures) are too wide apart to usefully compare.

Still, might go and carve a last slice of the Xmas ham since it is fair to say that I have not been persuaded, converted or guilted by the foaming hyperbole of vegans...do carry on with your self-referential convo though.

you are referring to locally produced food, honing in attempting to find any hypocrisy or unrealistic part of veganism
vegans, the same as meat eaters and vegis import food and out of season, guess what, no one is perfect.

are you still saying it's cheaper to feed a family with meat? an added ingredient for pleasure
why not just post "bacon tho" or a gif, almost the same thing

why do you think I and others are trying to convert you? still. you carry on, gorge yourself on the pig flesh, enjoy it and make sure it didn't die in vain

 

[ddraig]

Again you miss the point spectacularly.

Why do you feel it necessary to insist on this guilt that meat eaters are all apparently feeling? You do it a lot and it's absolute nonsense. It clearly illustrates the fragility of your own position that you need to make up things that are blatantly false.

why do the adverts bother her so much?? why not just sail on by?? there's obviously something there

and as Jeff said, it's fuck all compared to all the adverts for meat all year round everywhere you go
meat marketed at children, dressed up in different ways to keep the consumption and massive industry going

 

[Spymaster]

why do the adverts bother her so much??

I doubt they do. She's a columnist looking for stuff to write about. A quick search of that site shows she's penned dozens of articles from bra sizing to gift advice via recipe suggestions (including a defence of veganism). That article is actually pretty reasonable.

 

[Calamity1971]

This is how you make vegans angry
Probe After Restaurant Chef ‘Boasts Of Spiking A Vegan’

 

[Spymaster]

This is how you make vegans angry
Probe After Restaurant Chef ‘Boasts Of Spiking A Vegan’

She was a massive fuckwit, tbf.

 

[ddraig]

I doubt they do. She's a columnist looking for stuff to write about. A quick search of that site shows she's penned dozens of articles from bra sizing to gift advice via recipe suggestions (including a defence of veganism). That article is actually pretty reasonable.

right so not browbeaten or guilted then, just a journo
the article is not reasonable it's mostly about them, shoddy "journalism"

 

[ddraig]

This is how you make vegans angry
Probe After Restaurant Chef ‘Boasts Of Spiking A Vegan’

resigned apparently, despite being a co owner

 

[Spymaster]

right so not browbeaten or guilted then, just a journo
the article is not reasonable it's mostly about them, shoddy "journalism"

It's an opinion piece. Why does her opinion bother you so much?

 

[ddraig]

It's an opinion piece. Why does her opinion bother you so much?

it doesn't it's pathetic, transparent shoddy journalism and tired crap
the fact it was quoted here is telling of the arguments used however

 

[ddraig]

This is how you make vegans angry
Probe After Restaurant Chef ‘Boasts Of Spiking A Vegan’

loads of serious backpedalling and lies in there!
why would you resign if not done anything wrong??
and having a go at someone for ordering a non vegan pizza yet saying later on that they may well have been vegetarian so no issue with them ordering it

 

[keybored]

 

[Spymaster]

it doesn't it's pathetic, transparent shoddy journalism and tired crap
the fact it was quoted here is telling of the arguments used however

It's not journalism it's a blog post. The points she makes aren't much different to many that have been made here on this thread. The fact that you don't like them doesn't make them less pertinent.

 

[ddraig]

It's not journalism it's a blog post. The points she makes aren't much different to many that have been made here on this thread. The fact that you don't like them doesn't make them less pertinent.

which ones are pertinent then? they are patently bollocks

 

[mojo pixy]

Countless animals being tortured and brutally killed to supply this woman and others like her with luxury food items they don't need and yet she's the victim because she has to see a vegan advert every now and then on the side of the bus (amongst the endless stream of adverts for meat and other animal products). The arrogance, self-entitlement and self-pity of such people is truly staggering.

why do the adverts bother her so much?? why not just sail on by?? there's obviously something there

I don't know, I got the impression that the adverts for a vegan diet were a minor point for the writer, it was certainly left till the very end of the article to mention that aspect.

 

[ddraig]

what were the main points then?

 

[mojo pixy]

Did you not read it?

It seemed to me her main bones of contention were
1. Promoters using vegan to mean healthy
2. The notion of pledging / signing up, which she characterized as hard sell
3. The risk that a vegan diet as promoted to people with eating disorders may end up exacerbating the disorder
4. That veganism is promoted as something to adopt wholesale and this may put people off. She feels it's presented as all-or-nothing, when many people would be happy to make some effort this is considered hypocritical or insufficient.
5. Graphic adverts are unnecessary and counter productive.

I didn't consider point 5 to be her main argument. And none of the above are my arguments.