Do angry vegans turn you against going vegan?

[ddraig]

start a fucking thread for that then bees

 

[ddraig]

and anything you don't like in the slightest is jumped on, Jeff has gone from sensible poster to outrageous and unreasonable just because some of you can't handle them going off what you're comfortable with, even a tiny bit
bollocks to carnists controlling the debate on veganism

 

[Spymaster]

bollocks to carnists controlling the debate on veganism

But that's how it is. You're the ones who are trying to convince others of your moral superiority so it falls you to detail it. The fact that none have been able to and you all just deflect and obfuscate speaks volumes, doesn't it?

 

[ddraig]

no
this thread is about veganism and people going vegan and apparently angry vegans

if you and bees want a cosy thread about reducing meat that is acceptable to you, fucking start one

 

[Spymaster]

this thread is about veganism and people going vegan and apparently angry vegans

No it's not. The thread is specifically addressed to non-vegans. It questions whether or not meat eaters have considered going over to flower-munching, and if so have we been put off by the nutty-nut-roasters.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

You’re happy to discuss veganism - an ethical commitment against animal exploitation - if it’s redefined on your own terms to not mean veganism at all? How magnanimous of you!

tbf you're defining terms here in your particular way as well, creating something called a veganist. So while all veganists may be vegan, not all vegans are veganist.

 

[ddraig]

No it's not. The thread is specifically addressed to non-vegans. It questions whether or not meat eaters have considered going over to flower-munching, and if so have we been put off by the nutty-nut-roasters.

yeah, going over to, not reducing their carcass and decaying flesh munching

oh and here's lbj, again, sigh

 

[littlebabyjesus]

yeah, going over to, not reducing their carcass and decaying flesh munching

oh and here's lbj, again, sigh

what?

Who made you fucking thread-monitor?

 

[Spymaster]

yeah, going over to, not reducing their carcass and decaying flesh munching

Well it's over 80 pages now. You can't expect it not to spawn tangential discussions. Why should the nutbars call the tune?

 

[ddraig]

what?

Who made you fucking thread-monitor?

oh dear, of course you are, who could forget!!
never tried or wanted to be son

 

[mojo pixy]

bollocks to carnists controlling the debate on veganism

Bollocks to this being an identity thing.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Well, they’re gonna be forever disappointed then, aren’t they?

Meanwhile, maybe it’s possible to have a sensible debate about farming methods, consumption and environmental impact that may convince even the staunchest of carnivores to reduce their intake?

Let's be honest, you're not in the least bit interested in 'a sensible debate about farming methods, consumption and environmental impact'. If you were, you'd actually discuss these things, rather than use them only as a red herring to avoid substantively addressing animal rights arguments made by vegans. I remember when there was a thread on Shambala going meat-free for environmental reasons you did not engage in a 'a sensible debate about farming methods, consumption and environmental impact'. You did exactly what you and Spymaster are doing on this thread - resort to ad hominem abuse and no actual arguments. So please spare me the pompousness that you are wrapping your low-grade trolling up in.

 

[Spymaster]

You did exactly what you and Spymaster are doing on this thread - resort to ad hominem abuse...

Eh?

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Eh?

For example, your last two posts, 'flower-munching', 'nutty-nut-roasters', 'nutbars'.

 

[Spymaster]

For example, your last two posts, 'flower-munching', 'nutty-nut-roasters', 'nutbars'.

Oh, that. That's just a response to carnist and the other childish nonsense you lot have been chucking about. No more or less ad hominem either.

 

[tonysingh]

just popping in to see if anyone fancies a bacon sandwich?

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Oh, that. That's just a response to carnist and the other childish nonsense you lot have been chucking about. No more or less ad hominem either.

I haven't once used the term 'carnist'. You just liked a post saying 'Bollocks to this being an identity thing' and now you're making it an identity thing.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

just popping in to see if anyone fancies a bacon sandwich?

2003 just called, they want their internet banter back.

 

[Spymaster]

I haven't once used the term 'carnist'.

And I haven't once used any of those supposed ad hominems in response to you. You are generally worth reading and engaging with but you're losing it recently and certainly on this thread.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

And I haven't once used any of those supposed ad hominems in response to you. You are generally worth reading and engaging with but you're losing it recently and certainly on this thread.

Well, at least I'm generally worth reading and engaging with I suppose.

 

[ddraig]

just popping in to see if anyone fancies a bacon sandwich?

groan, grow up eh Tony

 

[Spymaster]

Well, at least I'm generally worth reading and engaging with I suppose.

Not today though unfortunately.

 

[8ball]

groan, grow up eh Tony

Tofacon?

 

[ddraig]

think there is somethign called fakon or similar, nasty stuff from what i've heard
things have moved on since then mind

 

[8ball]

think there is somethign called fakon or similar, nasty stuff from what i've heard
things have moved on since then mind

They've almost nailed vegan eggs, so I'm hoping it all comes together soon.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

no
this thread is about veganism and people going vegan and apparently angry vegans

if you and bees want a cosy thread about reducing meat that is acceptable to you, fucking start one

The entire thread is aimed at those who aren’t vegan. Get a grown up to slowly read the title to you maybe.

So, let’s say perhaps I should be aiming for one vegan meal a week, rather than my usual meat with almost every meal approach. Small steps and all that. But that isn’t enough for certain types. It’s all or nothing. At which point my answer will always be, fuck you, it’s nothing then.

Which to take on board Jeff Robinson point about Shambla from whatever year it was, was precisely my problem with their approach. Their way or nothing. This isn’t an approach to win people over.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

The entire thread is aimed at those who aren’t vegan. Get a grown up to slowly read the title to you maybe.

So, let’s say perhaps I should be aiming for one vegan meal a week, rather than my usual meat with almost every meal approach. Small steps and all that. But that isn’t enough for certain types. It’s all or nothing. At which point my answer will always be, fuck you, it’s nothing then.

Which to take on board Jeff Robinson point about Shambla from whatever year it was, was precisely my problem with their approach. Their way or nothing. This isn’t an approach to win people over.

So, you think that "in terms of environmental impact, sustainability, food supplies etc" it probably is "a good idea to cut back on the meat a bit"... but you're not going to because a vegan online told you that they don't think that's good enough? That makes absolutely no sense... unless you think its worth sticking it to the environment and the global poor to teach vegans a lesson?

As for not winning people over, apparently 70% of Shambala attendees reported ‘not missing meat and fish at all’ and 77% voted to keep the festival vegetarian with 33% of non-vegetarians and vegans saying that they had reduced their meat consumption after the festival.

 

[ddraig]

he'll go vegan at some point if he takes his long distance cycling seriously, if only to keep up with others
see Matthew Prithcard

 

[mojo pixy]

People calling meat-eaters names like Carnist and being self-righteous isn't what's driving the popularity of vegetarian and vegan diets though. Maybe it is, among the kinds of people who already like calling other people names and being self-righteous - but the actual veggie / vegan behaviour is being driven by things like, health concerns, environmental issues, growing awareness of animal welfare and / or animal rights, also IME food prices.

Here's the thing; meat-eating is the norm in a lot of the world. Meat eaters like vegans take affront when their diet is challenged because we hate it when people challenge our diet and it does become about identity .. hey look, you are what you eat. But ffs it's just what you eat.

Then comes advocacy, and labels and positions are no help there.
So anyway. I'm a timewasting fucking troll trying to point out bridges

 

[PaoloSanchez]

Why not then just use "passive vs militant"? Why the name-dropping? It's not like the end result of the process of animal liberation will involve their meaningful participation in the political processes of society, will it? I think you're brushing over a very fundamental and thus important difference between humans and other animals. One which you implicitly acknowledge, unless you think the other animals should get a vote on things.

Why are you making such a big fuss over me referring to MLK/Malcom X as an illustration of the difference between different types of activism? I'm perfectly happy with it and would happily use similar examples in the future if I felt it appropriate. I get the impression that it wouldn't matter what form of words or examples I used, you and your buddies would find a way of taking offence, and a rather convenient diversion away from the topic. I suppose it saves the energy involved in trying to construct a half decent argument of your own.

I'm assuming that you are a white person pretending to be outraged oh behalf of the blacks. Right?