PaoloSanchez
Well-Known Member
It depends on who watches it. Of course the haters may not like it or even bother to watch any of it, but the few that do might find some of the content useful.
Do angry vegans turn you against going vegan?
- Thread starter Watermelon Man
- Start date
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Adding a dash of sesame oil after cooking adds a good flavour to lots of dishes ime, and I reckon your recipe would be a good one for it. You just need a drop.
PaoloSanchez
Well-Known Member
lol, I hear what you mean about him being "brusque". That's his "tired of listening to all the bullshit" style, and tbh can't say I blame him. I've watched a few of his youtube debates and he's pretty good at countering the nonsensical arguments in real time too.Watched that last night. I found him to be a bit on the brusque side, but the content was excellent and covered nearly all of the usual objections and excuses.
PaoloSanchez
Well-Known Member
Nice one. That video wasn't posted in this thread but I did post another Dawkins video here along with a Sam Harris video.
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Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
I think if angry vegans just shared more recipes they'd have a bigger impact than telling the world off. IMHO.
Avocado Pesto Pasta for two
Cooked pasta for two
Handful of pine nuts or walnuts
1 ripe avocado
Handful of spinach
Cherry Tomatoes (roasted)
garlic powder or half a clove of garlic
glug of olive oil
handful of fresh basil
squeeze of lemon juice
tablespoon of nutritional yeast (optional)
salt
pepper
1. toast pine nuts or walnuts lightly in a pan for a minute or two
2. add nuts to food blender with a little saltand blitz until finely ground
3. add basil, spinach, lemon juice, avocado, garlic and nutritional yeast to the blender and blitz until smooth paste, adding olive oil slowly as it blends.
4. mix with pasta and top with roast tomatoes and toasted nuts.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
I still don't get the fragility bit of this. Ok, carnist is an attempt at an insult but why fragile? Is the suggestion that meat eaters all secretly feel guilty and defend their choices because of that?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
We're in denial and easily offended because we don't want to be confronted with the things being done in our name. Despite the evidence of the words that many have been posting. Despite the fact that we may actively support reform of factory farming, or the fact that some of us may have gone out of our way to learn about the realities of factory farming. We're either fragile or we're monsters. Not sure there's a third option.
PaoloSanchez
Well-Known Member
lol, I still haven't found the mythical "angry vegan". Do they really exist, and are these unicorn like beasts really telling the world off? Or perhaps it's just one of those Fun Boy Three stereotypes drinking their age in pints.I think if angry vegans just shared more recipes they'd have a bigger impact than telling the world off. IMHO.
Recipes? I personally don't really do recipes myself, however there's no shortage of them on the interwebs for those that are into that sort of thing. You can easily have a different vegan meal for every day of the year, which may surprise those that apparently believe that being vegan means that "there's nothing to eat".
Having an impact? Well veganism already has plenty of momentum and is growing quite nicely, and it's social media, activism and videos that seem to driving the increasing awareness and adoption.
PaoloSanchez
Well-Known Member
*Correction - it was the Specials not the Fun Boy Three.
ddraig
kicking against the pricks...
RainbowTown
Well-Known Member
I certainly agree that all animals should be treated with far more dignity and respect than they are, and that especially applies when they used for slaughter and vivisection. Most liked minded people - meat eaters or not - probably feel the same.
However....... it would be interesting to find out if any vegans have ever used ANY products (including medicines) that were at some point used on animals in order to make them safe before human use? If so, isn't there a contradiction of sorts in what is practiced and what is preached?
Like I say, the less slaughter and experimentation of animals, the better. Of course. That we all agree on. But let's not kid ourselves. We've all benefited from our use of them. Vegans as much as meat eaters . And that sadly, isn't going to end for the forseeable future.
However....... it would be interesting to find out if any vegans have ever used ANY products (including medicines) that were at some point used on animals in order to make them safe before human use? If so, isn't there a contradiction of sorts in what is practiced and what is preached?
Like I say, the less slaughter and experimentation of animals, the better. Of course. That we all agree on. But let's not kid ourselves. We've all benefited from our use of them. Vegans as much as meat eaters . And that sadly, isn't going to end for the forseeable future.
ddraig
kicking against the pricks...
hypocrisy hunting!
PaoloSanchez
Well-Known Member
People who identify themselves as vegan go out of their way to not use any products that involve animals getting harmed, however we don't live in a vegan world, and it would be extremely difficult to completely avoid using or buying ANY products that have cause an animal harm, for most of us that currently is not practical. This topic is covered briefly in the "Ask Yourself" video that I posted earlier.
The invalidity of hypocritical criticism – 39:17
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Ahhhh.
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
Do you seriously think that if factory farming were to be changed or abolished, that militant vegans would rest on their laurels? Like fuck they would.
They believe that meat is murder. Nothing less than the total cessation of animal-derived products will satisfy such fanatics. That's why they keep coming out with their crap, and will keep doing so forever, as despite the increase in veganism there will always be evil carnists that they can yell at.
RainbowTown
Well-Known Member
ddraig and PaoloSanchez:
It's a valid question/point I think I'm asking. You can deflect all you want with tried and hackneyed responses (rather cliched too, to be honest). I think most fair minded people on here will see through that.
Are vegans hypocritical (your words, not mine)? I wouldn't be as harsh as that. I think they are sincere (for the most part). But there is a contradiction in their stance. That cannot be denied.
It's a valid question/point I think I'm asking. You can deflect all you want with tried and hackneyed responses (rather cliched too, to be honest). I think most fair minded people on here will see through that.
Are vegans hypocritical (your words, not mine)? I wouldn't be as harsh as that. I think they are sincere (for the most part). But there is a contradiction in their stance. That cannot be denied.
PaoloSanchez
Well-Known Member
Well for a start there isn't a single amorphous blob of vegans who all do exactly the same thing and have a single stance. Secondly, what is it exactly that "cannot be denied"? As part of living in a non vegan world, there will almost inevitably be things that vegans do that end up causing harm or death. I don't think that makes for a contradiction as long as they are doing their best to minimise whatever harm they may be causing.
tbh, I'm not sure that your question is a genuine one, especially as you've already introduced a bit of unfriendly tone with the accusation of deflecting etc, but whatever...
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littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Yes I know. I explored that earlier when I asked what kinds of alliances might be possible between the likes of me who want to reform farming, but who eat meat and intend to continue doing so, and vegan activists. The answer appears to be none - we are still in the enemy camp because we still condone the slaughter of animals.
The point that cannot be accepted by some - ddraig for example - is that someone might think killing animals for meat is ok but that there is a right and wrong way to do it, and that there is nothing 'fragile' about such a position.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Jimmy forgot to put his teeth in. 
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
On a related note, I saw some vegan cheese in the supermarket today, where there used to be none, or at least none that I had seen before.
If I had the money to spare I would have been tempted to buy some, apparently it's made of coconut oil.
The last time I had vegan cheese - quite a few years ago now - it was at a vegan food festival that I turned up to because I was broke and squatting in London, and by that point I had learnt not to turn down free food, even if I ended up getting hungry again an hour later.
As I remember, it was... underwhelming. Not *bad*, but the mere act of eating it gave me no reason to seek it out again, let alone use it to replace real cheese.
If I had the money to spare I would have been tempted to buy some, apparently it's made of coconut oil.
The last time I had vegan cheese - quite a few years ago now - it was at a vegan food festival that I turned up to because I was broke and squatting in London, and by that point I had learnt not to turn down free food, even if I ended up getting hungry again an hour later.
As I remember, it was... underwhelming. Not *bad*, but the mere act of eating it gave me no reason to seek it out again, let alone use it to replace real cheese.
RainbowTown
Well-Known Member
A lot of meat eaters feel the same. As I said in my original post, they too, like vegans, would like animal suffering to be minimised. Certainly in respect of farming and animal experimentation. The difference is they acknowledge that contradiction, whereas it seems some vegans do not. You have in this post, yes, but I'd hazard a guess (rightly or wrongly) that you are in the minority.
My question was certainly genuine btw. And hopefully, the unfriendly tone you allude to will be taken in the spirit that I meant it to be....just debating, a different point of view. It was meant as nothing more.
PaoloSanchez
Well-Known Member
To be honest, I'm not really sure what point you are trying to make here. A lot of meat eaters love animals like vegans do? Well as dd said, they appear not to like them enough to not have them killed. Is that what they call "tough love"? Now to me that is a genuine contradiction and in my experience not one that meat eaters are overly keen to have highlighted.
Meat eaters on the whole know that animals are harmed so that they can eat meat. Vegetarians perhaps used to believe that there was no real harm done to produce milk and eggs, but now people are getting more aware of what goes on behind the scenes in the egg and dairy industry and the harm that is caused. Vegans on the whole try as much as is practicable to reduce their "harm footprint", which they do by choosing not to purchase or use animal products. I'm not seeing where the contradiction from the vegans is supposed to be. It is not reasonable to expect vegans to be 100% harm free in a 95% non-vegan world, so I don't think that's a fair criticism to suggest that their behaviour is contradictory. (This is covered under the heading - You aren’t 100% moral – 47:07)
Fair enough, and if that's the case that you are genuine, I'm quite happy to engage and have no problem listening to other viewpoints. There are a few troublemakers and timewasters knocking about in the thread and I can't be arsed to give too much more of my time to them so perhaps you can forgive me questioning your motives.
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