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Do angry vegans turn you against going vegan?

PaoloSanchez said:
Wow. Not this old chestnut again. :rolleyes:

Vegan Sidekick has some good responses to this and all the other poor quality arguments that some meat munchers think we've never heard before...
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Vegan Sidekick is fantastic. I love his cartoons and think they do a good job at countering a lot of the nonsense "gotcha" comments that meat eaters try to come up with. He needs to fix up his "Under Construction" website. I guess he's busy doing proper work. I'm not sure if you've ever listened to his youtube "ask me anythings", however related to your "pissing in the wind" discussion with the spymaster, here is one of the better sets of questions that vegan sidekick got in this AMA...
  1. Given the strength and ubiquity of non-vegan culture and given the overwhelming proclivity of humans to operate non logically do you believe veganism is ever likely to achieve mainstream acceptance or be successfully normalized in the same way that meat eating currently is?
  2. What factors inform your optimism or pessimism in this regard?
  3. Additionally what steps to you feel must be take in order that we progress society towards this end?
 
veganomics said:
  1. Given the strength and ubiquity of non-vegan culture and given the overwhelming proclivity of humans to operate non logically do you believe veganism is ever likely to achieve mainstream acceptance or be successfully normalized in the same way that meat eating currently is?
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And again. :D Yet another dripping with condescension.
 
Casually Red said:
Morrissey equated it with pedoism ..and the Jewish holocaust .
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A lot of the Jewish Holocaust stuff comes from this guy:

On Oct. 2, Alex Hershaft, a Holocaust survivor and founder of the nonprofit Farm Animal Rights Movement (FARM), sat on the ground with some 100 other protesters in front of the Farmer John pig slaughterhouse in Vernon, Calif., blocking the entrance from two bi-level trucks carrying 200 pigs that had arrived to be slaughtered that day. In the next 24 hours, the pigs would be among 6,000 animals that would be stunned by electrical shock, hoisted up by their hind legs and their necks slit in the plant, which is the largest pig slaughterhouse on the West Coast.

The demonstration was just one of more than 100 such protests held across the United States and in other countries commemorating FARM’s annual World Farm Animals Day.

“You could hear the pigs on the trucks crying,” Hershaft, 78, said quietly in a phone interview from his Bethesda, Md., home several days later. “Despite my advanced age, I made the trip to Vernon and risked arrest, because, as a Holocaust survivor, I am honor-bound to call public attention to this ongoing tragedy.”

As a 5-year-old in the Warsaw Ghetto, Hershaft witnessed brutal beatings and shootings and saw Jews dying of typhus in the streets. After being smuggled out of the ghetto by a family maid, he survived the war by passing as an Aryan. Upon liberation, he learned that his father had died following internment in a German slave labor camp, and that most of his other relatives had also perished.
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http://jewishjournal.com/news/los_angeles/108867/

(As far as Morrisey goes, I suspect he'd be an asshat no matter what he decided to eat.)
 
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Tbf to the vegans on this one the only reason I can come up with to eat meat is that it tastes good. If we were to start designing a food system that provides for a many people as possible with the least amount of environmentally impact I'm pretty sure meat would not feature highly.

And yes I had a burger from a dodgy takeaway in Portmadoc earlier this evening. :oops:
 
UnderAnOpenSky said:
Tbf to the vegans on this one the only reason I can come up with to eat meat is that it tastes good. If we were to start designing a food system that provides for a many people as possible with the least amount of environmentally impact I'm pretty sure meat would not feature highly.
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imo this is the most honest and straightforward type of response that I've heard. The other responses just sound like excuses and attempts at justification. I have a preference for straight talking folks who don't try to wriggle out and create distractions like some of the more strident vegan haters in this thread complaining about being offended and patronised.

As much as I disapprove of the lower animal welfare standards that some of the oriental countries appear to have, at least they don't try to hide it and pretend that it's not happening.

15318019_1239056249522162_318593006737348204_n.jpg
 
Celyn said:
What about vegetables? Some are fine raw, but I wouldn't much fancy eating raw potato or turnip, and we do really quite a lot of processing to things like wheat to make it into pasta or bread.
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I love both potato and turnip raw, strange but true
 
UnderAnOpenSky said:
Tbf to the vegans on this one the only reason I can come up with to eat meat is that it tastes good. If we were to start designing a food system that provides for a many people as possible with the least amount of environmentally impact I'm pretty sure meat would not feature highly.

And yes I had a burger from a dodgy takeaway in Portmadoc earlier this evening. :oops:
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Im not fussed about being fair to any loons that believe we are mass murderers for eating a kebab . It's pretty insulting as well as completely stupid .

Here are some reasons .

Why All Humans Need to Eat Meat for Health

9 Reasons Why Eating Meat Is Good For Health
 
PaoloSanchez said:
imo this is the most honest and straightforward type of response that I've heard. The other responses just sound like excuses and attempts at justification. I have a preference for straight talking folks who don't try to wriggle out and create distractions like some of the more strident vegan haters in this thread complaining about being offended and patronised.

As much as I disapprove of the lower animal welfare standards that some of the oriental countries appear to have, at least they don't try to hide it and pretend that it's not happening.

15318019_1239056249522162_318593006737348204_n.jpg
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Where is this vegan hating on this thread?

Just because your view is logically consistent, doesn't give you a free pass to spout shit. To miss represent people. No one is hating on vegans as far as I can tell.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
For clarity, which animals are you talking about here? Where is your line drawn?

To pick up on what bees said, I agree with him that everyone has to draw a line somewhere on this in terms of which animals we think deserve protection and which we do not, even you, unless you're advocating the right to life of a mosquito. Would you object to grasshopper farming, for instance? Serious question - they're animals that are farmed as food in some parts of the world.
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I try to avoid killing any animals wherever possible that includes insects and rodents and other "vermin". You're free to do whatever your conscience tells you. I grasshopper burgers is not something that sounds appealing to me although I'm sure they can be made to taste nice with the seasoning.
 
Casually Red said:
Im not fussed about being fair to any loons that believe we are mass murderers for eating a kebab . It's pretty insulting as well as completely stupid .

Here are some reasons .

Why All Humans Need to Eat Meat for Health
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Except thats clearly bollocks as plenty of people manage just fine without meat. Humans are very adaptable creatures, which is why we've managed spread to most corners of the planet. There have been people living of a vegan diet in India for example for a long time it was even considered an option in the West.
 
It is perfectly possible to live a healthy life style and enjoy good food with a vegan diet. I mean sure, it takes a lot of effort. But that isn't why I don't do it.
 
Actually, not quite true. I would eat less meat if therefore et cetera. But I would still eat meat.
 
UnderAnOpenSky said:
Except thats clearly bollocks as plenty of people manage just fine without meat. Humans are very adaptable creatures, which is why we've managed spread to most corners of the planet. There have been people living of a vegan diet in India for example for a long time it was even considered an option in the West.
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By Hitler .

Long term vegetarian diet changes human DNA raising risk of cancer and heart disease

http://nypost.com/2015/11/04/my-vegan-diet-almost-killed-me/

Vegetarians are unhealthy and 'mentally disturbed', says new research
 
xenon said:
It is perfectly possible to live a healthy life style and enjoy good food with a vegan diet. I mean sure, it takes a lot of effort. But that isn't why I don't do it.
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It takes zero effort to live a healthy lifestyle with a vegan diet.
I struggle to find a reason to eat mammal or bird meat from a health point of view.
EDIT :-
The longest-lived group of people are Adventist vegetarians and vegans.
The runners-up in Okinawa eat a bit of pork and fish, but it's not clear what they get from that - perhaps B12 ...
 
gentlegreen said:
It takes zero effort to live a healthy lifestyle with a vegan diet.
I struggle to find a reason to eat mammal or bird meat from a health point of view.
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No offence GG, honestly. But I have read your posts about eating a kilo of sprouts and all that. No thank you very much. So I won't be taking dietary advice from you. That said I have enjoyed good vegan meals from time to time.
 
The Hitler thing has also been shown to be bollocks. Eating meat more then very occasionally for most people in Europe would have been a far away dream.

As a meat eater I totally accept that its a valuable food source, but our modern very meat heavy diets are probably more alien to the way that much if humanity has lived then not eating it all.
 
xenon said:
No offence GG, honestly. But I have read your posts about eating a kilo of sprouts and all that. No thank you very much. So I won't be taking dietary advice from you. That said I have enjoyed good vegan meals from time to time.
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I simply researched optimal nutrition and found that cruciferous veggies are at the top of the list. Embarassingly it was news to me and I was 100 percent vegan for over 20 years ...
During my first omnivorous experiment (fish, dairy, eggs), I mistakenly believed that one could live 100 percent on fish ...
 
UnderAnOpenSky said:
The Hitler thing has also been shown to be bollocks. Eating meat more then very occasionally for most people in Europe would have been a far away dream.

As a meat eater I totally accept that its a valuable food source, but our modern very meat heavy diets are probably more alien to the way that much if humanity has lived then not eating it all.
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They don't really care that the Hitler thing is bollocks. Some folks will try desperately to cling onto any old argument even lame and illogical ones, in order to excuse and justify their habits and completely ignore the wealth of evidence that supports diets free of animal products or at least reduced consumption. They really are digging their heels in, bless 'em.
 
UnderAnOpenSky said:
The Hitler thing has also been shown to be bollocks. Eating meat more then very occasionally for most people in Europe would have been a far away dream.

As a meat eater I totally accept that its a valuable food source, but our modern very meat heavy diets are probably more alien to the way that much if humanity has lived then not eating it all.
Click to expand...

It hasn't been shown to be bollocks at all . His food tester confirmed it .

I also take it that you've never heard of hunter gatherer human societies ...basically what all humans did everywhere . They weren't hunting sprouts or turnips . They were hunting meat . Nothing alien about it .
 
PaoloSanchez said:
They don't really care that the Hitler thing is bollocks. Some folks will try desperately to cling onto any old argument even lame and illogical ones, in order to excuse and justify their habits and completely ignore the wealth of evidence that supports diets free of animal products or at least reduced consumption. They really are digging their heels in, bless 'em.
Click to expand...

The hitler thing isn't bollocks at all . The nazis actively promoted vegetarianism .

Adolf Hitler and vegetarianism - Wikipedia

Animal welfare in Nazi Germany - Wikipedia
 
Casually Red said:
It hasn't been shown to be bollocks at all . His food tester confirmed it .

I also take it that you've never heard of hunter gatherer human societies ...basically what all humans did everywhere . They weren't hunting sprouts or turnips . They were hunting meat . Nothing alien about it .
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Dude, you need to go away and do a bit more studying, you are clearly out of your depth. Quickly googling anything you can find that is critical of vegans isn't proper research. I would recommend some books to you but it would probably be a waste of time so I'm not going to bother and will save it for those genuinely interested.
 
For balance. The whole Hitler was a vegetarian thing. Humans have always hunted for meat. Who fucking cares. Eating lasagna isn't expression of natural hunter gathering instinct.
 
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