Did Rumsfield and Chums want and allow 9/11 to happen? The Poll!
- Thread starter DrRingDing
- Start date
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
Regarding Joe Vialls - it was Dr Jazzz who used him as a source of "proof", at least 5 or 6 times, in the 18 months or so after 9/11.
And of course the main body of "proof" from Dr Jazzz supporting his lizard/hologram theories concerned Ian Huntley.
I think when Dr Jazzz started the thread entitled "Huntley Is Innocent!" based upon the delusion bollocks written by Joe Vialls, it certainly became clear to me that the whole conspiracy thing is based on delusions and a need to feel important.
A tradition that Citizen66 seems happy to continue, as part of a plug to attract people away from this site and to use his instead.
It's a shame people have to take the piss out of U75 to try and make some kind of point that is based on the anti-Semetic lies and shite that is written by deluded schizophrenic nutjobs like Joe Vialls and David Icke.
Haven't I used the word 'deluded/delusion' enough in this post?
And of course the main body of "proof" from Dr Jazzz supporting his lizard/hologram theories concerned Ian Huntley.
I think when Dr Jazzz started the thread entitled "Huntley Is Innocent!" based upon the delusion bollocks written by Joe Vialls, it certainly became clear to me that the whole conspiracy thing is based on delusions and a need to feel important.
A tradition that Citizen66 seems happy to continue, as part of a plug to attract people away from this site and to use his instead.
It's a shame people have to take the piss out of U75 to try and make some kind of point that is based on the anti-Semetic lies and shite that is written by deluded schizophrenic nutjobs like Joe Vialls and David Icke.
Haven't I used the word 'deluded/delusion' enough in this post?
DrRingDing
'anti-human wanker'
But pk this thread has got nowt to do with lizards, joe whatshischops, anti-semitism or david bloomin icke.
Citizen66 said:
pk said:
Well, I've read the thread properly and as we can see with our own eyes you were not replying to Citizen66 comment at all, because if you had been and you'd answered him honestly, you would have been forced to admit that you are unable to cite a single concrete example of him ever referencing Vialls' site.
But why give a honest answer that might lend weight to your opponents case when you can choose instead to launch into yet another one of the Moonspud Gang's moronic diatribes against Dr Jazzz, in which you ritualistically invoke the Moonspud mantra: "Huntley", "David Icke", "anti-Semitism", "Joe Vialls" and <eek!> "conspiracy theorists" <eek!> all in the same breath, in a vain and transparently fraudulent attempt to associate Citizens name with theirs—the object being to somehow discredit him in the eyes of the passing reader.
Unfortunately for you PK the only person your post discredits is you!
By the way, I asked you earlier if you could provide concrete examples in support of your allegation of "Al Qaeda's" criminal involvement in identity theft and also for you to provide me with a list of the countries you claim Israeli citizens are unable to visit because they have "little freedom of movement globally".
So far you have completely failed to produce anything at all! Can we take it then that both of these claims are nothing more than a couple of makey uppy "lizard theories" concocted on the spot by a deluded and fraudulent shyster who then attempts to project his own decrepitude onto his opponents? Or is it even worse than that?
editor
hiraethified
I note that, as usual, you're completely ignoring the fact that I proved you completely wrong with your clueless claims about the supposed censorship here. Will you now withdraw your insulting claims?bigfish said:
Why are you making this nonsense up and ignoring my comments?
Sure looks like classic conpiracy fan disruptive behaviour to me and I'm getting really fed up with it.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
I'd say this is the closest the conspiracist nutjobs will get to the truth.Citizen66 said:
I'd also add another likelihood; since 1991, the USA has been thew sole superpower. that has led it to believe - what with being insulated on either side by an ocean - itself to be invulnerable. it simply did not believe anyone could or would attack it, a mindset exacerbated by the current incumbents being rightwing triumphalist fundamentalist wackoes.
Magneze said:
I don't think there are many who disagree with that. Not that the plan is working out as they expected.
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
Well if he's a Tom Clancey fan (and I would imagine he is) he'd have had a pretty good idea - in fact let's blame TC for writing in a book about a japanese terrorist flying a plane into the side of the WTC.
LIHOP - can someone point to the intelligence that said precisely when/where there was suposed to be a strike? FFS, the Pentagon's war planners only started allowing for scenarios with hijacked-planes-as-missiles about 18 months before 9/11 so it's not like they took the idea all that seriously.
This coupled with the politics between intel and law enforcement communities, the hundreds of disparate bits of intel from outside organisations who may have had their own agendas in feeding specific amounts of money...the list goes on as to the hundreds of human factors that could have lead up to it happening.
I'm with Magneze - the chances of human incompetence - such as the failure of the EW radar which left huge radar holes in the sky, the use of CIVILIAN ATCs to guide the fighters in and having to deceide what to do (and listening to the ATC tapes you hear voices that are paralysed by indecision and panic - but then these were all faked or played by actors)
I don't for one second think that no-one was aware that this attack would happen - what I do think is that for human reasons it happened the way it did, not because of some over-arching conspiracy to create it or LIHOP.
Thumper Browne
Big Wheel Up
Magneze said:
No, they knew how politically useful it would be before it happened.
PNAC specifically talks about 'full spectrum dominance', which in order to be achieved needed some ground work. Firstly, there needed to be defence budget increases to cover the costs of 'policing' the world and to pay for the R&D that would help transform the way the US goes to war, which in peace time is a tall order. Added to that was criticism of the 1992 Defence Policy Guidance Report that proposed maintaining high levels of defence spending. The criticism was directed at 'cold warriors' fighting to maintain cold war era levels of defence spending. The author of the report? None other than Dick Cheney. In order to change the public mood on defence spending in a post Soviet era there needed to be some external that would bring fear back into the US conciousness.
Also, full spectrum dominance also requires the control of space and cyber space. The internet is recognised by the boys at PNAC as a useful tool to people who oppose US dominance, they specifically site the Zapatistas in PNAC memoranda as a group who have exploited the advantages of internet communication. The way they propose to control the internet is to introduce legislation that will allow them to do so, to get the legislation through congress again they need the fear of attack.
Full spectrum dominance also means securing energy supplies and keeping the US economy afloat by propping up their huge trade deficiet by the continuation of the global oil price being quoted in dollars. The oil also needs to be transported to economically useful areas, that means pipelines across Afgahnistan, its just too convenient.
I've heard it said and read on the PNAC pages, tho I cannot find it now, that the US need some kind of Pearl Harbour episode to instill the fear that would allow increased defence spending and legislation on internet monitoring and policing and allow a fresh invasion into Iraq.
From this, we know they wanted such an occurance, which for me casts a big shadow over whether they would allow such an occurance.
Both the 9/11 commission and the Butler report both run themselves round in circles on intelligence issues, rumours of terrorists planning to use planes in an attack but nothing specific so they did nothing. Suprious intelligence on Iraqi WMD, this time we act, double standard or mere inconsistency. Incompetent intelligence, incompetent politicians and strategists. Yeah we all have our failings but pleading ignorance is too weak for me. There may have been many incompetent acts and absolute failings in al these affairs but for me even that is another smokescreen.
pk said:
Why are you talking crap PK, don't use ignorance as an excuse because I have witnessed you having a brain on at least one occasion? The editor specifically suggested that Dr Jazzz or any of his ilk are free to start their own fruitloop forums if they're unhappy with the rules here. That is exactly what I did as a direct response to that suggestion. And seeing that 'apparently' the majority of people here 'aren't intersted' or are 'sick' of 9/11 discussions, I hardly think it's a plug for my site, do you? Especially as my site's URL and the message board I set up are completely different.
Spastic
Red Jezza said:
What fucking Rot.
Al Quada had already attacked WTC once before. Now is ANYONE going to answer me about the failures of the military to scramble F16's properly after the first plane left it's flightpath or (even more so) why any of your 'credible sources' haven't been asking these questions either?
In fact... can anybody point me out a link where any 'credible source' has actually asked ANY questions at all?
Or do they just spin out facts that you all feel comfy with?
Citizen66 said:
Some have even witnessed you having at least half a brain. Not when you discuss conspiracies, though, I'm afraid.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
have you considered this? any US politicaian engaged in a conspiracy to even allow 9/11 to happen, if they were rumbled, they'd end up so far back in jail they'd have to have air pumped into them. the risk is simply too great.Citizen66 said:What fucking Rot.
Al Quada had already attacked WTC once before. Now is ANYONE going to answer me about the failures of the military to scramble F16's properly after the first plane left it's flightpath or (even more so) why any of your 'credible sources' haven't been asking these questions either?
In fact... can anybody point me out a link where any 'credible source' has actually asked ANY questions at all?
Or do they just spin out facts that you all feel comfy with?
and why is it 'fucking rot' for the world's only superpower to assume they were invulnerable on their own soil? the end of the Cold War has made the US political elite extremely arrogant
Red Jezza said:
Those are, basically, the two points that are simply unanswerable. (IMO)
Lock&Light said:
Half a brain more than you've got, eh Lock&Light? You're like a crow on a fucking wall you are. You don't actually think about anything for yourself like, you just watch the goings on around you and occassionally swoop away to go catch a worm or something when hunger kicks in. And sometimes, you feel compelled to pipe up and want to get noticed when there's large external activity. Ask questions you don't. Debate reasonably you don't. In fact, I'm prepared to listen to you for a few minutes while you explain away your intermittent nonsensical interjections in a subject that you neither ask questions about nor can provide any answers for! Go for it - you now have a platform - Wahey!!
Citizen66 said:Half a brain more than you've got, eh Lock&Light? You're like a crow on a fucking wall you are. You don't actually think about anything for yourself like, you just watch the goings on around you and occassionally swoop away to go catch a worm or something when hunger kicks in. And sometimes, you feel compelled to pipe up and want to get noticed when there's large external activity. Ask questions you don't. Debate reasonably you don't. In fact, I'm prepared to listen to you for a few minutes while you explain away your intermittent nonsensical interjections in a subject that you neither ask questions about nor can provide any answers for! Go for it - you now have a platform - Wahey!!
Step on your toe, did I?
Red Jezza said:
Okay. Your first paragraph I disagree with because the threat of imprisonment never really seemed to bother the CIA when they were running the MK-Ultra program. It has never bothered the CIA regarding any of the black ops that they've ran in the past to discredit unfavourable organisations. The CIA obviously remained unquestioned in many of the coups they helped create around the world that suited their political agenda.
Also, I believe that there's no chance in the slightest of anyone suspecting or even accusing the US administration of breaking US law as they seem to freely break international law with complete immunity. If the world can't hold them to rights, how on earth can the country they govern attempt to do so? Especially under the veil of 'protecting' them.
Your second paragraph, yes, maybe we can hold our hands to our hearts and say that the US let their guard down because they felt they were invincible. But what happened between the moment that the first plane left it's flightpath and the third plane hitting the Pentagon other than a huge sum of money being thrown at their defence budget, a pipeline being successfully constructed through Afghanistan and the current occupation of Iraq with the control of Iraqi oil being an unfortunate byproduct? To me, mate, theirs a slight whiff about all this of the propaganda thrown around about the indigenous red Indians of the US, way back when, and the subsequent land grabs that went hand in hand with that.
These are the Questions I want the answers to Jezza. The fact is, is that nobody seems to be asking any questions at all. BTW, thanks for wanting to debate the issue rather than throwing newspaper articles at me or trying to discredit me.
It makes a refreshing change.
Citizen66 said:
What do you mean? You only have half-toes as well?
Citizen66 said:
What was your reaction to the manned landing on the Moon, Cissie?
Citizen66 said:
Not directly, no. Interesting just the same.
editor
hiraethified
I must have missed that. Where are your conspiracy forums?Citizen66 said:
Presumably, they're doing incredibly well and buzzing with fascinating threads and new posters, reflecting the interest you seem to think there is for endlessly repeated 9/11 threads here.
PS Be sure to invite bigfish to your forums. And fela fan and CaroleK too!
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