David Icke: Was he right? C5 11pm (boxing day)

[exosculate]

Like others have said, a percentage of what he says (lets call it the the sensible stuff) I have no trouble broadly agreeing with. However, the other stuff, lets call it the lizardy stuff; I think shows signs of schizophrenia.

Its not surprising therefore that he gets airplay. Because his mad stuff overshadows the sensible stuff and as such discredits him. The establishment love that.

He'll always be given more airplay than someone like Chomsky because of that.

 

[BEARBOT]

you hit the nail on the head..its so frustrating!

icke could potentially wake up huge numbers of ordinary football loving non political folks up to
ever widening fascistic government controls...

a freind had one of his books which talked about the erm lizards...there was no evidence in the book to back his claims up needless to say...

i do think even people who are fans dont buy the lizard thing..do they???

 

[holden]

Bizarrely enough, the person who comes out of this programme worst is Terry Wogan, who truly is a smarmy, ingratiating prat, even then you could see him preparing for his royal honour finally given this year.

And he's from Limerick. Shame.

Icke seems pretty genuine if woefully misguided.

 

[editor]

icke could potentially wake up huge numbers of ordinary football loving non political folks up to ever widening fascistic government controls...

No, he couldn't, because he's a fucking laughing stock among "ordinary football loving non political folks."

"Son of God" my fucking arse.

Just because he's made a few remotely rational points amongst all his lizard-lunatic mumblings, that doesn't stop him being a Grade A nuttah and more of a hindrance to 'the truth' than a help.

 

[Psychonaut]

...
i thought it was significant that icke chose NOT to include his lizard theories in his high profile talk at the academy..thats his personal twist isnt it..

The 'live at brixton academy' commercial DVD included reptilian theory. Not sure if that was the same night as on this doco.

 

[Psychonaut]

i do think even people who are fans dont buy the lizard thing..do they???

I dont share his conviction, but i consider it to be a possibility. After taking in the scope of global, historical references, modern supposition & theory i think thats the only sensible conclusion a rational mind can make.

Althopugh i suspect your idea of what 'the lizard thing' actually means is probably completely different to Ickes, which in turn is probably slightly different to mine.

 

[BEARBOT]

sorry editor... i MEANT to write icke COULD have reached "the average person" about political issues MANY years back,if he hadnt lost the plot totally.... ...yes i agree with you,i dont think anyone will take him seriously NOW as a lefty or green spokeman..shame he went mad, it really is..

part of what fueled the frustration in my post was a conversation with a smug woman on xmess day who is very involved with the green party who came out with gems like "the working classes will never vote green/dont care about the environment,its a middle class thing"
she said this when i suggested to her the greens should broaden their scope in london...
when i saw the icke programme i thought about
all that energy into writing 15 nutty books COULD have gone into the green party

ok psychonut..so are u saying that everyone involved in the conspiracy therory movement has their own take on the reptiles?
the basic idea is that alien life forms have taken over george bush/the queen etc? just different folks beleive they are from different plants or different species of aliens?
well everyone is entitled to their beliefs of course! my belief is that there are a lot of bad HUMANS in the world,generally the ones with the most power..

 

[Larry O'Hara]

..i felt the programme was well balanced...but i suppose more and more people are finding a GRAIN of truth in the conspiracy theories

The programme was a shallow disgrace--he was allowed to spout rubbish from beginning to end, unchallenged. Not so much a documentary as a self-promotion film. How can something be described as balanced when not one critical voice was heard. What next--a Hitler Nuremburg speech as "even-handed", or a Stalin monologue as "cogently analytical". Twadddle from beginning to end, and dishonest/evasive throughout.

 

[BEARBOT]

ok..im NOT defending icke..as ive said above i think he is MAD!

i was suprised that i agreed with some of opinions on our governments tightening controls on the population....thats all.
every word out of his mouth wasnt mad...WHEN he stuck to criticism of the government/police that is..

i do very much get the feeling that he had prior approval on this programme,it really let him have his say..the format as all him,it wasnt a debate and yes i agree larry, no other views were heard...perhaps i said it was well balanced cos i honestly thought some narration would come in taking the piss out of him..i thought it was good that channel 5 let him have his say..i dont think this guy can do any real harm except fleece people out of a few quid on books..a "puff piece" documentary on the BNP that allowed them to present themselves would be a lot more worrying..

i looked at ickes website and the websites posted on the 9/11 thread in general.
it just seemed dubious to me..lots of disparate info strung together.

HOWEVER michael moore has been asking questions about the us involvement in 9/11 and i find him to be a reasonable person.the only reason i consider us involvement/prior knowledge of 9/11 to be within the realm of possiblity is cos IMHO moore is sane/respected UNLIKE icke and any other conspiracy theorists..

 

[kyser_soze]

The programme was a shallow disgrace--he was allowed to spout rubbish from beginning to end, unchallenged. Not so much a documentary as a self-promotion film. How can something be described as balanced when not one critical voice was heard. What next--a Hitler Nuremburg speech as "even-handed", or a Stalin monologue as "cogently analytical". Twadddle from beginning to end, and dishonest/evasive throughout.

I rather think that was the point - not to challenge what he said, just pass him enough rope to hang himself with...

 

[BEARBOT]

exactly! and now that he has gotten his say he cant say his views are being supressed

 

[Larry O'Hara]

It isn't just about Icke's self-perception: some of the issues raised are too important to be debased by association with him. Furthermore, the title of the documentary was a lie, inasmuch as no proper attempt was made to answer the question.

 

[William of Walworth]

It isn't just about Icke's self-perception : some of the issues raised are too important to be debased by association with him. Furthermore, the title of the documentary was a lie, inasmuch as no proper attempt was made to answer the question.

The key point ....

 

[RaverDrew]

HOWEVER michael moore has been asking questions about the us involvement in 9/11 and i find him to be a reasonable person.the only reason i consider us involvement/prior knowledge of 9/11 to be within the realm of possiblity is cos IMHO moore is sane/respected UNLIKE icke and any other conspiracy theorists..

surely you are kidding ????

Michael Moore seriously kicks old Ickey's butt when it comes to being full of shit and double standards.

 

[editor]

Michael Moore seriously kicks old Ickey's butt when it comes to being full of shit and double standards.

Really? So has he come up with anything as barking as declaring himself the Son of God or declaring the likes of Bill and Hilary Clinton, Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mum, Bob Hope and Kris Kristofferson to be child-sacrificing, blood-drinking Satan-worshippers capable of changing their shape?

How do you feel about him declaring Friends of the Earth, Greenpeace, and the environmental movement in general are being used to "promote the New World Order"?

And how fucking dodgy is this?

How is it right that while this fierce suppression goes on, free copies of the Spielberg film, Schindler's List, are given to schools to indoctrinate children with the unchallenged version of events. And why do we, who say we oppose tyranny and demand freedom of speech, allow people to go to prison and be vilified, and magazines to be closed down on the spot, for suggesting another version of history.
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/David_Icke

 

[BEARBOT]

icke seems to talk out of both sides of his mouth regarding his anti semetic views

raver drew..i try to keep an open mind about most things, i really do.
you can post on here anything you want to tell me about michael moore or PM me.ive just read his books and found them to be revelant..that was years back now, there might be loads i dont know about him..
AFAIK moore is sane tho..which is a plus

larry...what william said really..i would like to hear more of yr opinions on the bit he's highlighted

 

[Psychonaut]

...
ok psychonut..so are u saying that everyone involved in the conspiracy therory movement has their own take on the reptiles?
the basic idea is that alien life forms have taken over george bush/the queen etc? just different folks beleive they are from different plants or different species of aliens?..

Whats being discussed is;

'chiefly incorporeal entities'

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/David_Icke
(editor seems to have skimmed his own link )

The 'lizard thing' being endlessly misquoted on these boards is effectively just a strawman.

lizards are several species of animal inhabiting out physical world, whereas reptilians/nagi(india)/chitahuari(s.africa) etc etc refers to a mysterious race of incorporeal entities described by shamans around the world since ancient times.

 

[editor]

lizards are several species of animal inhabiting out physical world, whereas reptilians/nagi(india)/chitahuari(s.africa) etc etc refers to a mysterious race of incorporeal entities described by shamans around the world since ancient times.

And what about the shapeshifting child-sacrificing, blood-drinking Satan-worshippers like Bill and Hilary Clinton, Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mum, Bob Hope and Kris Kristofferson he's been banging on about?

 

[Jazzz]

best stay away from them editor!

 

[holden]

I'm still wondering why Ickey is picking on Kris Kristofferson. What has Kris ever done to offend anybody, apart from those tiresome tear-jerker films with Barbara Streisand.

Now if Icke turned his attention to Bono, Sting or Bob Geldof I'd give him some brownie points!

 

[Jazzz]

Now if Icke turned his attention to Bono, Sting or Bob Geldof I'd give him some brownie points!

He's given Bono and Bob both barrels

 

[bigbry]

All through this thread there's "I agreed with some of what he said" ... "I could see some of his points"

Of course - the thing about conspiraloons is that there has to be a thread of truth/fact/etc to try to hold together there argument - it's the embellishment that's the problem.

 

[wishface]

I think this one will be worth a watch. Ive seen him give his talks at the battersea arts centre and the brixton academy. I like him because he says what he thinks, and that consists of a vast quantity of wierd shit from unamed sources. He doesn't credit his influences and sources and co-opts many concepts into his own rambling crazy opinion, which he presents largley as his own work. Really he is a conspiracy theorist and shamanic spiritualist combined. i certainly don't think he is a anti-semite. I do of course think he should be taken with a large bag of salt. but I wonder if the c5 program will be a knowing ironic piss take? I like the way he stands up and says what he thinks...

his basic message is one of community and love, really.
I don't have a problem with that.

 

[greenman]

All through this thread there's "I agreed with some of what he said" ... "I could see some of his points"

Of course - the thing about conspiraloons is that there has to be a thread of truth/fact/etc to try to hold together there argument - it's the embellishment that's the problem.

One question is - is Icke a knowing or unknowing disinformation agent?

The way disinformation works, and the way it has always worked, is to have information that is worthy of investigation and discussion linked in the public mind, (and the minds of potential investigators) with self evidently ridiculous and ludicrous ideas and views. The UFO thing has been used for many years in these ways to disguise or confuse any investigation or reportage of new and high-security aviation and space projects.

I thought the most revealing part of the film, and particularly interesting if Icke had some editorial control, was where he was talking to his son about "how to do it" - it may have been edited, but the definite impression was that he was selling his 'showmanship' to his son - basically saying in as many words, 'look son, this is how you can make a career in entertainment.'

Sad. But an attitude that was no doubt shared by the creators of the Rennes-Le-Chateau/Da Vinci Code mythology - the showmen/entertainers De Cherisey and Plantard, who also , like Icke, included nuggets of interesting information amongst the dross - nuggets now discredited by association.

Hint, and I will say no more, ha ha ha - one of the nuggets of interesting information common to both pieces of fantastical mythology is the importance of certain special locations to certain members of certain networks.....

 

[Psychonaut]

And what about the shapeshifting child-sacrificing, blood-drinking Satan-worshippers like Bill and Hilary Clinton, Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mum, Bob Hope and Kris Kristofferson he's been banging on about?

I agree that the child-molesting thing seems very far fetched (compared to reptilian theory which i have no problem with). Unless youve actually witnessed it yourself, or second hand via a trusted friend, you'll naturally demand some hard proof.

Put yourself in his shoes for minute. If you, having travelled round the world and interviewed many apparantly earnest & genuine people alleging these terrible things, what would you do about it?

 

[Psychonaut]

...
I thought the most revealing part of the film, and particularly interesting if Icke had some editorial control, was where he was talking to his son about "how to do it" - it may have been edited, but the definite impression was that he was selling his 'showmanship' to his son - basically saying in as many words, 'look son, this is how you can make a career in entertainment.'....

Icke's 'infinte love/conciousness' message shares a lot of common ground with Bill Hicks. Icke cracks the odd joke on stage. Entertainment and information neednt be mutually exclusive.

Your points on disinformation are solid enough, but in his defense Icke repeatedly urges listeners to put their religious/political differences aside and focus, wherever possible on what is agreed to work towards common goals. A sentiment the 'left' would do well to consider. (not having a dig)

 

[blinky_bill]

He reminds me of something I read about anti-religious types in the 1600s in the lead up to the english civil war.
Back then it was unthinkable for anyone to come out as an athiest; it would mean a long prison sentence. The most successful anti-religious types got away with it by acting insane. The one that springs to mind was abeizer coppe but there were others I'm sure http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiezer_Coppe although it doesnt give all the details on wiki I'm sure there was something about him claiming to be the son of god, denying the afterlife, giving naked sermons and riding on a mule on good friday like jesus did. Back in those days it was the equivelant of claiming the royal family were lizards.
Yet in retrospect he is remembered as being a progressive social thinker. If he hadn't of come out with all the son of god bollocks he would of been locked up, maybe executed as a dissedent.
Maybe david ike just tacks all the lizard stuff on the end of his shows to keep himself out of the eye of the people he is really attacking. I think he is more outspoken than most of the "new world order" theorists and he gets away with it by acting the fool.
Not to say that I think he's right, but I do listen to what he says up to the point he starts talking about lizards - thats just stupid.

 

[editor]

Not to say that I think he's right, but I do listen to what he says up to the point he starts talking about lizards - thats just stupid.

So how about his child-sacrificing, blood-drinking Satan-worshipping stuff?

Or his rather odd opinions about Schindlers List?

 

[editor]

Put yourself in his shoes for minute. If you, having travelled round the world and interviewed many apparantly earnest & genuine people alleging these terrible things, what would you do about it?

I'd ask for solid, credible proof while beginning to harbour serious doubts about the sanity of the people making these claims.

I'd also look long and hard at their backgrounds, qualifications and possible motives before believing a single word they uttered.

How about you?

And who are these "earnest & genuine" people you claim are alleging these "terrible things"?

Do you even know who they are? Have you any names?

Or are you just taking Icke's word for it - and if so, why?

 

[Larry O'Hara]

Maybe david ike just tacks all the lizard stuff on the end of his shows to keep himself out of the eye of the people he is really attacking

Not so I'm afraid: in my considered opinion, he developed the lizard stuff as camouflage for those he is really attacking: the Jews. In the near future I will put online my Greenline article showing this with reference to his core ideas. Can't do it straight away as it has to be retyped, & time is short...